How long do you suppose we have?

[Okieblue]

Issues, issues, issues.

60 days behind to CU, and will soon be 90, and by the time we can pay for filing, will be 120. Others will be hitting the 2 month mark here at the end of the month. Was told by lawyer #2 that buying new vehicles looks suspicious, was a bit judgemental for my tastes, lawyer #1 was not judgemental, but was a slob, would he lose all our papework? And no one shook my hand. So, was told by 2 I can't borrow money to pay taxes, even though it would be a gift by family member, #1 said it would be seen as a gift. #1 wants more up front and I can't pay it til next month. #2 made it clear that pre-planning was a mistake on my part because it looks like abuse. #3 is tomorrow and has the same high fee up front, but sounded really nice on the phone. I just need to get through til next month or Dec., it would help to put more time between filing and when I last used cc's. Not wanting to have a judgement against me though.

[ccsjoe]

It will be at least a couple months before you get a judgement against you. Assuming CU would file suit now, you have either 28 or 30 days to respond. Assuming you respond disputing amount owed, that buys you extra 30 days or so....etc.

[keepmine]

I'd agree with Joe. You got plenty of time. Dec. is just around the corner.
Nothing at all wrong with preplanning. It's pretty standard advice around here to get you transportation needs arranged prior to filing.
I'd also suggest you not involve others in your financial issues prior to filing bk.
Wait until discharge and then, accept the gift and pay your taxes.
Neater and cleaner than possibly having a large payment go through your account on the cusp of filing and maybe skewing the means test.

[tobee43]

yes, i agree with joe and keep....


it takes time to get a judgment and even if they do, at the very worse you can have it removed after the discharge. it will cost you additional legal fees since a motion to vacate will need to be submitted to the court.

we held off almost 3 years before filing.

[LaurieM]

Issues, issues, issues.

60 days behind to CU, and will soon be 90, and by the time we can pay for filing, will be 120. Others will be hitting the 2 month mark here at the end of the month. Was told by lawyer #2 that buying new vehicles looks suspicious, was a bit judgemental for my tastes, lawyer #1 was not judgemental, but was a slob, would he lose all our papework? And no one shook my hand. So, was told by 2 I can't borrow money to pay taxes, even though it would be a gift by family member, #1 said it would be seen as a gift. #1 wants more up front and I can't pay it til next month. #2 made it clear that pre-planning was a mistake on my part because it looks like abuse. #3 is tomorrow and has the same high fee up front, but sounded really nice on the phone. I just need to get through til next month or Dec., it would help to put more time between filing and when I last used cc's. Not wanting to have a judgement against me though.

Keep in mind here.... you get what you pay for when it comes to bankruptcy attorneys. I work for one - our firm is THE most expensive within probably 25 miles of where we are located and we struggle to keep up with the influx of clients because of word of mouth referrals from prior clients. When prospective clients call in and ask what we charge... that's exactly what I tell them (that and "she's just that good" hehehe ) We also expect payment ENTIRELY up front - the reason is that not unlike any other creditor, we cannot attempt to collect once the bankruptcy is filed. To use an analogy here... if you were in need of brain surgery.... would you be looking for the least expensive doctor, or the doctor who had done the most brain surgeries, successfully? Ask that question.... how many have you done? what percentage of those were successfully discharged?

[wonderingrov]

On the lawyer issue, I would keep shopping around until I found one I was comfortable with, and obviously one that seems to be very competent in what they are doing. As LarieM pointed out, cheapest isn't necessarily the best - a good attorney can save you in the long run, even if their fees are higher. The main thing you want is to find one that knows what they are doing and that you are comfortable with. One thing that helped me out was searching for information on attorneys online (google and other tools). I actually eliminated two attorneys before even consulting with them because they had so many complaints against them.

On the debt front, it sounds like you still have plenty of time - I wouldn't panic. Even if it gets to the point where someone is suing you, there are things you can do (like filing an answer to the suit) to slow down the process and buy yourself some time until you can file.

[tobee43]

Keep in mind here.... you get what you pay for when it comes to bankruptcy attorneys. I work for one - our firm is THE most expensive within probably 25 miles of where we are located and we struggle to keep up with the influx of clients because of word of mouth referrals from prior clients. When prospective clients call in and ask what we charge... that's exactly what I tell them (that and "she's just that good" hehehe ) We also expect payment ENTIRELY up front - the reason is that not unlike any other creditor, we cannot attempt to collect once the bankruptcy is filed. To use an analogy here... if you were in need of brain surgery.... would you be looking for the least expensive doctor, or the doctor who had done the most brain surgeries, successfully? Ask that question.... how many have you done? what percentage of those were successfully discharged?

also, being in the field for a number of years, although not bk...i find this to be totally unsettling and extremely disturbing to me.

some of the most excellent atty's are those young atty's just starting out attempting to build up clients.

i have seen the most expensive atty's do the worse jobs. i believe cost is not the issue period. the atty themselves determines how well a situation is handled as well as the experience of their staff.

also, i would never, ever even consider a bankruptcy atty that demands payment upfront....that would be the first sign to run the other way....it would indicate to me exactly how uncaring and unsympathetic that firm would be to my circumstance. after all, you are there because you need help.

here's a great atty.........one that takes $100 because that's all you have in your entire life at the moment..you just lost your job, your wife is extremely ill, you can't even afford medicine....this firm takes your meager $100 tells you to have all calls to your home directed to their office and they will take care of it for you. they also ask you for a list of those that are bothering you daily and they will write letters to C/D. they will take payments when you can afford to give them, just as long as you take care of your family first. when you have made payment in full, they will then file for you.

i have been legal field for many years...it tears me apart to hear these types of firms are still in business...but then again maybe their clients are one's with millions of dollars...not the ones that don't even have enough money to put food on the table.

laurie...no disrespect intended, however, this really hits a DEEP nerve..... but i'm extremely appalled at your post. i'm not trying to be confrontational....it's just extremely sad to hear about firms like this.

and by the way, the firm i'm giving as the above example, is the firm i used...after being in the field so long. they were excellent and also did pro bono work as well...it's called "caring".

and while it's understandable that atty's must make money, it sickens be to see firms take advantage of these situations....kicking someone when they are down. and, i'm not anti atty, my sister is an atty, and my brother is a superior court judge.

if this was a "civil" suit situation i can understand the logic behind wanting to have monies up front. however, when people are down and out...at usually the lowest point in their lives....anyone that boast they are the best and most expensive because they are NOT the best but usually, egotistical, pompous, and also usually the ones that speak the loudest and say nothing.... and certainly not someone i would want on my team....they can spend their time looking at themselves in the bathroom mirrors convincing themselves just how good they are because they are so expensive...but they aren't getting my referral.

[LaurieM]

also, being in the field for a number of years, although not bk...i find this to be totally unsettling and extremely disturbing to me.

some of the most excellent atty's are those young atty's just starting out attempting to build up clients.

i have seen the most expensive atty's do the worse jobs. i believe cost is not the issue period. the atty themselves determines how well a situation is handled as well as the experience of their staff.

also, i would never, ever even consider a bankruptcy atty that demands payment upfront....that would be the first sign to run the other way....it would indicate to me exactly how uncaring and unsympathetic that firm would be to my circumstance. after all, you are there because you need help.

here's a great atty.........one that takes $100 because that's all you have in your entire life at the moment..you just lost your job, your wife is extremely ill, you can't even afford medicine....this firm takes your meager $100 tells you to have all calls to your home directed to their office and they will take care of it for you. they also ask you for a list of those that are bothering you daily and they will write letters to C/D. they will take payments when you can afford to give them, just as long as you take care of your family first. when you have made payment in full, they will then file for you.

i have been legal field for many years...it tears me apart to hear these types of firms are still in business...but then again maybe their clients are one's with millions of dollars...not the ones that don't even have enough money to put food on the table.

laurie...no disrespect intended, however, this really hits a DEEP nerve..... but i'm extremely appalled at your post. i'm not trying to be confrontational....it's just extremely sad to hear about firms like this.

and by the way, the firm i'm giving as the above example, is the firm i used...after being in the field so long. they were excellent and also did pro bono work as well...it's called "caring".

and while it's understandable that atty's must make money, it sickens be to see firms take advantage of these situations....kicking someone when they are down. and, i'm not anti atty, my sister is an atty, and my brother is a superior court judge.

if this was a "civil" suit situation i can understand the logic behind wanting to have monies up front. however, when people are down and out...at usually the lowest point in their lives....anyone that boast they are the best and most expensive because they are NOT the best but usually, egotistical, pompous, and also usually the ones that speak the loudest and say nothing.... and certainly not someone i would want on my team....they can spend their time looking at themselves in the bathroom mirrors convincing themselves just how good they are because they are so expensive...but they aren't getting my referral.

With all due respect.... I cannot tell you how many pro bono cases we take on per year and/or how many we do for greatly reduced fees. To argue that because we charge higher fees as a rule means we do not care is ridiculous. We charge more because we do some things before and after filing (like get back garnished funds; prepare orders to send directly to the local courts to get court actions stopped and faxes to employers to get garnishments stopped immediately; negotiate with creditors to get mortgage/car loan rates/payments reduced through the reaff process: post discharge assistance with cleaning up the credit report). We also allow clients to provide our contact information to creditors after the first $350 paid so the creditors can be "stalled" while clients save up the remainder of their fees.

In contrast, there are several "less expensive" bankruptcy attorneys who take part up-front and remainder in payments. We see at least one or two cases filed by these attorneys per week (cases royally screwed up, won't answer client calls; cases dismissed; etc). The point of my post was that cheap isn't always best. I tell prospective clients that and suggest they call around to get comparison prices and then call us back if they would still like to come see us.

[tobee43]

With all due respect.... I cannot tell you how many pro bono cases we take on per year and/or how many we do for greatly reduced fees. To argue that because we charge higher fees as a rule means we do not care is ridiculous. We charge more because we do some things before and after filing (like get back garnished funds; prepare orders to send directly to the local courts to get court actions stopped and faxes to employers to get garnishments stopped immediately; negotiate with creditors to get mortgage/car loan rates/payments reduced through the Raff process: post discharge assistance with cleaning up the credit report). We also allow clients to provide our contact information to creditors after the first $350 paid so the creditors can be "stalled" while clients save up the remainder of their fees.

In contrast, there are several "less expensive" bankruptcy attorneys who take part up-front and remainder in payments. We see at least one or two cases filed by these attorneys per week (cases royally screwed up, won't answer client calls; cases dismissed; etc). The point of my post was that cheap isn't always best. I tell prospective clients that and suggest they call around to get comparison prices and then call us back if they would still like to come see us.

Laurie that is commendable that the firm you work for does all that follow up work after the completion or discharge of the bk.

yes, and agree...cheapest is NOT always the best....but my point was that the most expensive is not necessarily the best either.

i do know many firms that if they have to file a motion to vacate it cost up to $600 per motion...above the initial bk fee.

to me, it's not so much the "price" as the interview with and the impression of what type of knowledge is displayed. i think we both know how many atty's promise and do not and cannot follow thru...i have seen it on this forum to many times to count.

i interviewed at least 6 atty's before i found the one i felt most comfortable with....was the firm the most expensive...NO...where they the cheapest...absolutely NOT....maybe it just grabbed me the wrong way... which was the "getting what you pay for" type of response...and then saying how expensive your firm is...LOL!!! those two factors just got me.

however, i do think that is very good that the firm you work for help "after".....because so many people are just left with the piece of paper and say .....and so now what???? and what about that judgment i have...what next...etc.

the bottom line for me...is pick the atty your MOST comfortable with and best suits YOUR needs...actually NO matter what the cost.

hope i said that right!!

[Okieblue]

I'm not looking for the cheapest, but I can't come up with $1500 down right now, seeing someone else who wants only $900 down, then throws the rest in the plan *if it turns out to be a ch 13*, which I fully assume. I paid half my taxes, and need to come up with the other half by next week. How can I research the atty's and see what their reviews are?

[AngelinaCatHub]

Well, you do get what you pay for, that is true. However, how you pay, and how much is not the issue. I don't wish to see two wonderful posters at odds or change the direction of this thread, but hey, you are BOTH right. It is possible to have the best and demand payment up front. Now then, in that vein, within the possible "free" consultation, it is possible to ask if this could be modified and I am sure this happens.

Also, a young, hungry, lawyer will do his best for the least, but experience does count. But then again, how does he get experience? By trial, tribulation and much hard work.

We had a respected lawyer whom was plain out worthless and cost us 10K that did not need to happen. But in the end, we learned so much that we stay around here to tell folks what pitfalls we had.

The OP asked and told of his experience. He MUST still shop as he will "feel" the right one by and by. It need not be cheap, or expensive, only effective.

Remember, not only do you get what you pay for, but you must give what you sell. It is a two way street. The OP has not landed yet, so let's help him/her, not count the Angels on a head of the pin. My opinion. 'Hub

[tobee43]

Well, you do get what you pay for, that is true. However, how you pay, and how much is not the issue. I don't wish to see two wonderful posters at odds or change the direction of this thread, but hey, you are BOTH right. It is possible to have the best and demand payment up front. Now then, in that vein, within the possible "free" consultation, it is possible to ask if this could be modified and I am sure this happens.

Also, a young, hungry, lawyer will do his best for the least, but experience does count. But then again, how does he get experience? By trial, tribulation and much hard work.

We had a respected lawyer whom was plain out worthless and cost us 10K that did not need to happen. But in the end, we learned so much that we stay around here to tell folks what pitfalls we had.

The OP asked and told of his experience. He MUST still shop as he will "feel" the right one by and by. It need not be cheap, or expensive, only effective.

Remember, not only do you get what you pay for, but you must give what you sell. It is a two way street. The OP has not landed yet, so let's help him/her, not count the Angels on a head of the pin. My opinion. 'Hub

i hear you hub!


i think it sad that so many people go for help and many wait too long as it is, and then are told well come up with x amount and only then will we help you.

there are many excellent atty's out there that will work within your budget and let you make monthly payments until they are paid in full and then they will file the petition.

also, as i mentioned many firms will do pro bono cases if one qualifies, so i don't want the OP to feel lost and alone when there are atty's out there that will help them.

of course, it requires foot work and phone calls. but once again, i think the most important aspect is to be comfortable with whom it is you hire. to me once again that's the key, to feel safe and confident with who you hire. it's a tough call....even you hub, said your atty ended up "worthless"...and was well respected.

bottom line...it's hard call for anyone!

[wonderingrov]

One thing you may want to check on if you do find an attorney you really like is to see if the fee is negotiable. The attorney I used is definitely not the cheapest (nor the most expensive) one I had a consultation with, but after I paid the initial money towards the retainer, she knocked about $500 off of her normal fee. I say this just to let you know that the initial price the attorney quotes *may* be negotiable in certain situations.

[tobee43]

One thing you may want to check on if you do find an attorney you really like is to see if the fee is negotiable. The attorney I used is definitely not the cheapest (nor the most expensive) one I had a consultation with, but after I paid the initial money towards the retainer, she knocked about $500 off of her normal fee. I say this just to let you know that the initial price the attorney quotes *may* be negotiable in certain situations.

good point wondering...it never hurts to even ask if they would be negotiable on the fee.

[Okieblue]

Saw 4th today, they were busy, and atty took time to tell me he has filed over 3,000 cases, I can't find anything wrong with him, and he wants the least amount up front, which works for me. He also told me that if I were to become employed in the future, the trustee isn't likely to ask for a modification and take that money. Now, I need to go over my numbers.