BK filing and Landlord notices

[researchnerd]

You have a lease. He can ask for more of a deposit, but he can't evict you if you don't pay it. As long as you follow the terms of the lease. Unless your lease says that he can ask for more of a deposit at the whim of the landlord, that is.

This is not necessarily true. My lease specifically states that if we file for bankruptcy, we are considered to be in default, the lease automatically terminates, and we are required to vacate immediately. Needless to say, we didn't include the lease on our BK paperwork. If the Trustee objects, oops, we left it out by mistake. But otherwise, my landlord is not involved (we've never been late on a payment and are not in arrears) and does not need to know.

[SweetGeorgia]

Dang, but that sounds like a BIG stay violation waiting to happen! It's either attempting to collect in violation of the stay, or it's destroying an asset of the estate (if a lease could be an asset). It's certainly coercive.

I think in that case, where according the contract all sorts of stuff is triggered by bankruptcy filing, I would make SURE to report the lease and find a way to let the trustee know about that language. Quote it on the schedule, and tell her at the 341 meeting.

[ccsjoe]

Dang, but that sounds like a BIG stay violation waiting to happen! It's either attempting to collect in violation of the stay, or it's destroying an asset of the estate (if a lease could be an asset). It's certainly coercive.

I think in that case, where according the contract all sorts of stuff is triggered by bankruptcy filing, I would make SURE to report the lease and find a way to let the trustee know about that language. Quote it on the schedule, and tell her at the 341 meeting.

Hi SweetGeorgia,

Not sure which post you are respoding to here? Can you clarify please?

The last thing you want to do if you have an unexperied residential lease as a tenant on which you are current is alert the landlord to your bk filing, especially if you intend to keep the lease, as your filing would do nothing to affect the lease itself.

A lot of residential leases nowadays no longer contain the bk clause; you find that clause mostly when dealing with prop. management companies or individuals using an older lease format.

Not sure why, if you are referring to researchnerd's post, you would want to stir the hornet's nest?

[gman]

Curious...

1. When one decides to leave any mention of the lease off, do you bother to show the security deposit?

2. If you decide to show the lease on Schedule G, AND YOU DO NOT LIST THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY ON THE CREDITOR LIST, are they notified?

I am leaning toward not listing any of it...as a few lawyers have pointed me in that direction because I am current and have never been late...I am filing Pro Se.

[researchnerd]

Curious...
1. When one decides to leave any mention of the lease off, do you bother to show the security deposit?
2. If you decide to show the lease on Schedule G, AND YOU DO NOT LIST THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY ON THE CREDITOR LIST, are they notified?
I am leaning toward not listing any of it...as a few lawyers have pointed me in that direction because I am current and have never been late...I am filing Pro Se.

1) I did not show my security deposits because they are explicitly referenced in the lease as being non-refundable. They are mentioned as "pet fee" and "cleaning fee" but are essentially security deposits.

2) The property manager in our case was not notified because we didn't mention the lease on any schedules OR the creditor list. The only way they'll find out is if they happen to peruse local public records.

ccsjoe is right that most leases no longer contain the BK language - this is the first time I've seen this. Our landlord is a real estate agent and he just used the RE company's boilerplate lease agreement. I thought about crossing off the BK clause (when we rented we were pretty sure at least DH was going to file BK) but then decided to just leave it alone. They were awesome about not asking a lot of questions or checking our credit, so we decided to let sleeping dogs lie. We are great tenants, so in all likelihood they will never know.

SweetGeorgia, if you're referring to my post, I don't understand how my lease language is an attempt to collect in violation of the stay. If the lease is not included in BK, then it isn't affected by the stay, right? The contract makes no mention of collecting, it just says we have to move out. I also don't understand how the lease could be considered an asset (it's a liability, if anything) but I am not a legal eagle.

[ccsjoe]

Curious...

1. When one decides to leave any mention of the lease off, do you bother to show the security deposit?

2. If you decide to show the lease on Schedule G, AND YOU DO NOT LIST THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY ON THE CREDITOR LIST, are they notified?

I am leaning toward not listing any of it...as a few lawyers have pointed me in that direction because I am current and have never been late...I am filing Pro Se.

1. No. The reason is if the sec. dep. is within the bank record lookback AND the trustee questions the expense, you answer security deposit. Nobody is going to question your need to secure a place to live. That is the only remote instance where the trustee would ask why you didn't list the deposit or the lease. And that is a remote possibility at best.

2. Some say no. My attorney said in my district, yes, because you have to complete address information for lessor, so it will be pulled from G if not on matrix.

gman, please, best advice is let sleeping dogs lie man, don't make my mistake voluntarily. Worst case is trustee will ask why not listed, answer is ooops, lease is not a creditor so didn't realize it...