met w/attorney now I feel worse

[october99]

Yeah, I know it was my first one and he was useless. So why do I feel so defeated?? I live in a small town (outside a big city) and I thought I should go with an attorney in my town, but now I'm wondering if that is going to be possible. There may be one other attorney in town I can consider and then a third one that does criminal defense as well as bk so I wasn't considering him at all.

Is it going to be common that the attorneys will not run a means test or even give me any input until I pay a retainer?

Should I just accept that I may need to travel to meet/find an attorney? Is this common if you don't live in a large city?

Do all bk attorneys look like they could be bums on the street corner or did I just have some very bad luck with my first one?

[Freddy03]

Sorry you had a crappy meeting. Everyone says on here to interview a few before you choose. I have only met with one and I am very comfortable with this group. I guess for once I was just lucky in finding the right one the first time.

Good luck!

[ccsjoe]

Hey october, take a deep breath.

Yes, it is common that most will not run a means test until a retainer is paid. The means test is part of the filing and you will not get it for free. The good news is that you can interview various attorneys via free consults and ask them if based on the information at hand (snapshot) if they feel you would qualify for a 7....no guarantees of course.

My own attorney, of whom I speak highly, told me upfront that if I wanted means test results prior to actually deciding to file, that it would cost XXX, because it is a substantial amount of work.

As far as bums, no, they shouldn't, ran into a couple sleazy looking ones, but not really bums.

Another thing you can do is look up your local BK court website and look at a 341 calendar...that will usually show 341 meetings for X days and ATTORNEY names representing clients at those meetings. Find one who a couple who are there regularly and call up for a free consult.

Don't despair, it's all how the game is played.

[wnguyen]

october99

That's exactly how I felt after the first attorney I consulted with but don't be discouraged. You can always look for others. Here are what the second one asked me when I visited her law firm:

- Bring all of my bills and 6 months of pay stubs, if possible, to the initial visit so she can decide if I'm qualified for chapter 7.

- I was asked many questions about property transfers, my tax returns of both the current and last year, my assets, including my cars, my monthly expenses.

- From there she can tell me if I should file for bk or not. Since my debts were way up to the sky, bk is inevitable.

My initial consultation was free. I believe most initial consultations are free. Since I didn't do the means test so I don't know if you have to pay a retainer in order for you to do it but in order for you to file, your fees have to be paid in full prior to filing.

[SMinGA]

Attys may not want to put much into your case before they've been hired. But bankruptcy mainly boils down to a case of #s and you can do the math to have an idea of where you stand.

Calculate net income.
Do you generally receive a refund or owe at tax time? If so, you may need to adjust withholding. Try to estimate what your net monthly income would be with that corrected. (Such as if you pay @ tax time, take 1/12 of your last tax bill and deduct from your net since you need to increase withholdings. Do the opposite if you get a refund.)

Make sure you're calculating correctly. If you are paid every week, take the normal check x 52, then divide by 12. If paid biweekly, take the check amount x 26 and divide by 12.

Do you have 401k deductions or loan payments? They may be an issue if filing ch. 7.

Assess Bills & Expenses
Add up what bills will remaing after filing. Do not count credit cards, do not count a vehicle if you intend to surrender it. Do not count student loan payments at this point. For things that you pay annually (such as if you pay your own property taxes) put 1/12 of the annual amount on your monthly bill list. Do include your mortgage/rent and utilities and such - though if you are planning to give up your home that topic (whether to count old bills or estimate new amounts) needs to be covered ultimately w/ an atty.

Think about your telecommunications bills. Cable, internet, cell and such. Car insurance, other insurance, etc.

Think about expenses. Groceries, gas for your vehicle: these are obvious. But you have other needs also. Clothing & shoes for each member of the family as well as laundry supplies. Medical - including prescriptions, copays, over the counter expenses. Vehicle maintenance. Home maintenance. (Such as for lawn care, pest control, getting your A/C unit serviced occasionally.) Personal care items - hair cuts and also supplies like shampoo, deoderant, etc. Household supplies - cleaning items, paper products, etc.

If you have abnormal expenses in any area, be prepared to document them. Such as if you have a child w/ food allergies it might result in higher than normal grocery expenses. Or if you have high out of pocket medical costs. You can even claim charitable contributions as an expense - be prepared to show receipts and/or cancelled checks.

Figure the difference: net income less bills & expenses. What do you get? If you get a large surplus, reassess your bills & expenses. Have you left things out? Be realistic about what you need. If you truly have money remaining, ch. 13 may be the right option for you.

Some things are a little tricky. Don't count student loan payments, because you would not make those while in a ch. 13. 401k deductions/loan repayments don't get counted as expenses in a 7 - but do in a 13.

[october99]

Another thing you can do is look up your local BK court website and look at a 341 calendar...that will usually show 341 meetings for X days and ATTORNEY names representing clients at those meetings. Find one who a couple who are there regularly and call up for a free consult.

Great advice! I hadn't even opened the calendar on their website as I didn't think of it having any info that would help me.

I do pass the nolo means test with -$445 dmi. When I do a budget sheet with all my expenses and income I have -$9. I am not including SL payment or 401k contributions on this budget.

At first glance it is true that it looks like I wouldn't qualify for a 7, esp if you only look at assets, income, and secured debt payments. But once I get into paying for childcare (for two 3-year-olds) and medical expenses (for me) it tips the scale. I just need to find an attorney that is going to be an advocate for me for a 7. And I guess if I wind up in a 13 try their best to keep that payment low low low.

[SMinGA]

Based on that - I'd think with the right atty (someone who knows their stuff and listens to their clients) you will do just fine. Just need to be able to discuss your expenses, your needs and make sure you are heard. When you find the right atty, I suspect you'll get a sense that they actually want to have you as a client, and they'll appreciate the work & research you're putting in.

Income & means test expenses are not the only things to determine 7 vs. 13, that is just a starting point. Ouch on the child care for the 3 year olds. Nothing you can do about that but at least it will get better in time. Or does it? I guess 'day care' goes down with 'after school care' but then you have school supplies and such!

I do pass the nolo means test with -$445 dmi. When I do a budget sheet with all my expenses and income I have -$9. I am not including SL payment or 401k contributions on this budget.

At first glance it is true that it looks like I wouldn't qualify for a 7, esp if you only look at assets, income, and secured debt payments. But once I get into paying for childcare (for two 3-year-olds) and medical expenses (for me) it tips the scale. I just need to find an attorney that is going to be an advocate for me for a 7. And I guess if I wind up in a 13 try their best to keep that payment low low low.

[ccsjoe]

october, I do not see where the problem is. As long as your childcare expenses are within reason for your area (mine for 1 child are almost 1K/month and well within reason for my area) and your medical is well documented, then any attorney worth half a penny should be able to get it by a trustee without question. Stop stressing and start calling for free consults!!!

[tobee43]

Do all bk attorneys look like they could be bums on the street corner or did I just have some very bad luck with my first one?

well, i for one can attest to that...i'm the one who's atty showed up with his pant zipper completely down...but he knew his stuff...zipper down or not! LOL!!!

[HakunaMatata]

My first consult attorney was terrible! Classic arrogant slimeball. He gave me incorrect median income figures, ignored the few questions I posed, and asked me if I was going to "screw the credit union too".

You've received great tips and information. I recommend bringing income information, a general list of your expenses, a copy of the Nolo Means Test results, and an overview of your assets/debt (don't forget to write down your questions as well). My second consult attorney was amazing in this regard. She took my information and spent a considerable amount of time plugging numbers. My third consult is the attorney I hired. He was clearly knowledgeable, had considerable experience, patiently responded to my inquiries, provided comfort, and our personalities blended well. I was very impressed with his demeanor...although, now that you mention it...his appearance wasn't particularly professional (unless, of course, flannel shirts and slacks rank high on the professional garb scale!).

Hang in there! There is much to be gained from consultations. It may get frustrating and/or confusing. Thankfully, you have the BK Forum to help guide you.