Starting from ground zero

[highlife]

Hello everyone:

I am so glad that to find a forum like this exists. I am just beginning the whole BK process, and to be honest, the mental strain has been one of the hardest parts to handle. Any advice on how to handle the deep dark feelings taht creep into your head would be greatly appreciated.

My impending BK (probable 7) was from a failed business. Our main creditor is the bank we had our credit lines through. The have sued for default on the lines. The loans were all current, and had never been past due in over a decade with them. We recently had a major problem with a vendor, and the inventory we were promised (verbally), and had listed on our financials essentailly evaporated because of it. This caused a huge collateral issue with the bank. We offreed to have them term out the line, promising 100% of all current revenues streams, but they refused. Our attorney thinks they will try to say that we gave them fradulent financials, and thus not have their debt discharged. It's going to be a long, and ugly ordeal.

I am just struggling with the notion that I have let everyone in my life down. That I will never be able to ever give my family anything, and that everyone I care about would be better off if I were not in there life.

If you can provide any words of encouragement for me, or anyone else out there that is beginning this process, I would greatly appreciate it.

[newbie2]

Hello everyone:

I am so glad that to find a forum like this exists. I am just beginning the whole BK process, and to be honest, the mental strain has been one of the hardest parts to handle. Any advice on how to handle the deep dark feelings taht creep into your head would be greatly appreciated.

My impending BK (probable 7) was from a failed business. Our main creditor is the bank we had our credit lines through. The have sued for default on the lines. The loans were all current, and had never been past due in over a decade with them. We recently had a major problem with a vendor, and the inventory we were promised (verbally), and had listed on our financials essentailly evaporated because of it. This caused a huge collateral issue with the bank. We offreed to have them term out the line, promising 100% of all current revenues streams, but they refused. Our attorney thinks they will try to say that we gave them fradulent financials, and thus not have their debt discharged. It's going to be a long, and ugly ordeal.

I am just struggling with the notion that I have let everyone in my life down. That I will never be able to ever give my family anything, and that everyone I care about would be better off if I were not in there life.

If you can provide any words of encouragement for me, or anyone else out there that is beginning this process, I would greatly appreciate it.

Please please don't think this way. I bet that if you talked to your family about what you are feeling, that all of them would say life is much better with you in it.

There isn't any of us that hasn't struggled with our decisions to file bankruptcy. For many of us it has been the most emotional time of our lives.

You've already gone the first step (talking with an attorney). That is often the hardest because it makes up face up to the fact that we need help that is beyond what we can personally take care of.

Post as often as you like, you'll get through this.

[frogger]

The hole that you're in can be deep and dark, however it is not the end of the world. What you're actually doing is starting a new beginning.

A fresh start.

Most all of us have been there, felt what you're feeling, and know that the sun is shining brightly on the other side.

Hang in there and don't give up. It's not going to be nearly as long or as ugly as you think it's going to be.

[Universal]

It is only dark initially. We all have those same feelings in the beginning. Then we get past that and start learning that we can get out of this mess and start anew. I was squalling constantly when we first began to recognize that we really had no option but to see a bk lawyer. I really felt so ashamed and like one big screwed up mess. Every time we were at the atty.'s office I would start squalling.
After I learned what we would had to do, then I quit all the crying around, saw there was an honorable way out of it all, and wanted to get started with making payments on our plan as I knew we could never reach the last payment until after making the first. We are still fairly new at this having made only 4 payments.
And guess what, we do now have a little cash in our pockets that we didn't have before because every penny, and more went out before.
You will get thru this too.

[researchnerd]

You are not alone. I hid my head in the sand for almost two years because I didn't want to give up our home, and I kept telling myself that DH's next job was right around the corner. Finally we sat down together, put the numbers down on paper, and realized we had to give it up. It was such a difficult realization that I almost threw up (sorry) once we figured it out. In the six months since then we've both had the blues off and on (moving in February is just f-ing depressing) but all we can do is take things day by day and move forward.

DH and I have spent hours trying to figure out whether we could have done something differently and saved the house, but ultimately we just never counted on his longterm job loss. I suspect it's the same for you. You did not ask for your inventory to disappear, you did not intend to defraud the bank...correct? You made the best decisions you could with the information and the situation you had at the time. As long as you know this in your heart, you haven't let anyone down.

Also, be very careful with statements of "everyone" and "never." You may not be able to provide everything you want for your family right now, but that will not last forever. It may seem like a lonnnnnggg time, but it's not forever.

One more thing that's helped us a great deal: taking action. Whether it's filing for bankruptcy, creating a reasonable budget, or reading a BK book -- every little step you take to make your situation better in the future helps a lot. After a while I was even looking forward to our foreclosure, because it meant I could close that chapter of my life and move on. I still really don't want to be in this situation, but beating myself over the head with it doesn't serve anyone.

Oh! And read this thread: There's No Shame in BK

[ryan]

Highlife: Going through this is a lot like playing a hand of high stakes poker....

The correct strategy requires you to do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what human nature and habits usually dictate.

Most players, when they get a good hand, become overconfident and bet too large and lose.

Conversely, most, when they get a bad hand, assume they will lose and give up or fold too early.

The right strategy is to do the opposite...

To play ultra conservative with a good hand, and to HAVE FAITH you will catch a card with a bad hand.

You presently have a bad hand....now play it according to strategy.

Oh, and it doesn't hurt to have a little luck, so Good Luck!

[AbbeyA]

Hello everyone:

I am so glad that to find a forum like this exists. I am just beginning the whole BK process, and to be honest, the mental strain has been one of the hardest parts to handle. Any advice on how to handle the deep dark feelings taht creep into your head would be greatly appreciated.

My impending BK (probable 7) was from a failed business. Our main creditor is the bank we had our credit lines through. The have sued for default on the lines. The loans were all current, and had never been past due in over a decade with them. We recently had a major problem with a vendor, and the inventory we were promised (verbally), and had listed on our financials essentailly evaporated because of it. This caused a huge collateral issue with the bank. We offreed to have them term out the line, promising 100% of all current revenues streams, but they refused. Our attorney thinks they will try to say that we gave them fradulent financials, and thus not have their debt discharged. It's going to be a long, and ugly ordeal.

I am just struggling with the notion that I have let everyone in my life down. That I will never be able to ever give my family anything, and that everyone I care about would be better off if I were not in there life.

If you can provide any words of encouragement for me, or anyone else out there that is beginning this process, I would greatly appreciate it.

My dh and I filed ch. 7 bk in October 09 after dh's business failed early in 2009. Our experience has been nothing short of a nightmare, and we are still not discharged 9 months later. One of the banks with a business loan has been absolutely terrible -- if you want to learn the whole ins and outs of what's been going on, check out my thread in the Adversarial Proceeding board. I would love to say it will be OK, but my dh and I have been through the ringer from this bank. If your attorney is already foretelling problems with this bank, he is probably correct in his thoughts. Our attorney said he didn't think this particular creditor was going to go away in the middle of the night and he has been absolutely right.

As with you, my dh has done nothing wrong and we can't understand why this bank has been so aggressive. They have had several different "theories" and thoughts on how to make the debt non-dischargeable, from thinking we are hiding assets, to implying dh embezzled money, to implying fraud on the loan documents, to implying a breach of fiduciary responsibility. None of the above are true. Now we wait until June 30th as the last day for them to file an objection, after THREE time extensions, and our attorney thinks they will file something. I hope and pray that he is wrong. There is nothing to make this debt non-dischargeable.

From where we are now and what we have experienced so far, my advice would be to love your wife and children/family, believe and know that you are not the cause of all of this. We have been experiencing the worst economy since the Great Depression. Thousands of small businesses fail and thousands of small business owners manage to pick themselves up and not let that define them. DO NOT let this define you! Do your best not to argue with your spouse, do your best to support each other emotionally and don't run from a conversation - however difficult it is to have.

Two weeks into the business failure (the bank called the loan and shut it down by not allowing any further payroll), I made my dh see his doctor and start on an antidepressant. I absolutely believe it helped him immensely during those early months. It has been really hard, but I think it could have been MUCH worse if he didn't start on it. I was 8 months pregnant when the business failed so I refused to start on anything at that time. I recently started on an antidepressant (one month ago) since this has been dragging on so long. We both can't wait for the foreclosure to be completed on our house so we can get out of this place full of bad memories. The air doesn't feel the same anymore and there is not much true happiness in here aside from the kids beautiful innocence and laughter. It will be good to move on.

I hope your attorney is wrong about this creditor. Brace yourself for a difficult battle ahead of you and expect it to be tough, but hope for the best (as they say). I will say this again, DO NOT let this define you! Your family and kids need you and love you. Put your best foot forward each day and you will manage to get through it.

[highlife]

Thanks...it helps a great deal

Thank you to everyone who has replied to this thread. I imagine I am not the only one beginning this journey, and reading threads on this forum. It is grate to hear from people at various stages of the process. It is also nice to hear the full range of experiences, from those that things went smoothly, to those who are in a real battle. Abbey, I have read your post about AP. Hope all turns out well for you, and please keep me posted. I imagine I am in for a similar fight. Would love to hear your stratagies and how they turned out.

Also, just wanted to make something clear. I have discussed all of the problems and possibilities with my family, including my parents as well. Just didn't want to have any one think I was keeping anything from my family. Just trying to absorb most of the daily stress, instead of letting it hit my family. Trying to keep their lives as normal as possible.


I do have one question for everyone. Any suggesstions on how you keep the dark thoughts from being there every waking moment? I think it would be easier, if I could focus on something, anything, else for even a few minutes at a time. But every little thing I see or do reminds me of where I am right now. Any suggestions for how to get it out of your mind for even a few minutes at a time?

[AbbeyA]

Thank you to everyone who has replied to this thread. I imagine I am not the only one beginning this journey, and reading threads on this forum. It is grate to hear from people at various stages of the process. It is also nice to hear the full range of experiences, from those that things went smoothly, to those who are in a real battle. Abbey, I have read your post about AP. Hope all turns out well for you, and please keep me posted. I imagine I am in for a similar fight. Would love to hear your stratagies and how they turned out.

Also, just wanted to make something clear. I have discussed all of the problems and possibilities with my family, including my parents as well. Just didn't want to have any one think I was keeping anything from my family. Just trying to absorb most of the daily stress, instead of letting it hit my family. Trying to keep their lives as normal as possible.


I do have one question for everyone. Any suggesstions on how you keep the dark thoughts from being there every waking moment? I think it would be easier, if I could focus on something, anything, else for even a few minutes at a time. But every little thing I see or do reminds me of where I am right now. Any suggestions for how to get it out of your mind for even a few minutes at a time?

I think it is hard to keep your mind off of things ... I still haven't gotten to a point where if I wake up at night, it isn't immediately on my mind. I wish I could give a good answer and suggestion on this. I think as time has gone on, it has gotten a little easier to deal with - but maybe it's more of an acceptance of things that is the difference. In my opinion this has been a grief process like a death has occurred. The stages of grief -- denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance -- I think that's all of them. I have experienced every one of those feelings at one time or another, but mostly I have had a lot of anger lately. A month ago, after the section 2004 examination/deposition, our attorney said he believed that the bank would file an objection. I felt like that was a turning point for me, it felt like my entire being dropped out of my body when he said that. It was at that moment I knew I needed to start on an antidepressant. I'm not sure if I feel much different from it yet, but I do seem to be calmer lately.

My dh is in a better place than me - he is able to focus on work and keep his mind off of things. Wine is good too

This is a process and you will get through it, you cannot let this sink you entirely -- you are down now and will eventually be in a different and better place than you are today. It may get lower, but at some point it will end. (At least that's what everyone keeps telling me)

[freefall]

Hello Highlife,

I get exactly what you mean by the dark thoughts that won't leave you--not even for a moment. You said:

I am just struggling with the notion that I have let everyone in my life down. That I will never be able to ever give my family anything, and that everyone I care about would be better off if I were not in there life.

I struggled in this same way, and just considering your statements and what you are going through brings back bad memories almost like some kind of post-traumatic stress reaction. But all of that is behind me now; we are completely finished with our Chapter 7, and have been for several months, and I am back to work. So, I have come through it. Until today, I wasn't sure why I kept coming back to this forum, but I think I might understand now. I think there is a support system here, like AA is for addicts, where even when they are recovered, they continue to go to meetings because they have found a place where they can get emotional support and when they are stronger, they can give emotional support. I would like to give you some emotional support, just as it was given to me when I first came here.

I know how dark it is for you right now, and it's true that when faced with bankruptcy, some people kill themselves, but that is only a solution for you--not your family. They would still be faced with the bankruptcy after you were gone, plus funeral expenses, plus being just left on their own, and if you have kids, your suicide will be the final lesson you teach them. Do you realize, if you have life insurance, your creditors will get it before your family? Do you realize your creditors are the ones who will benefit most from your death in that case?

And there's a paradox in suicide, you know: if you are really ready to do it, if you are really capable of doing the act, then you are already free. If you can really walk through life with a gun pointed at your head, ready to pull the trigger at any moment you choose, then you are truly free to live. Why not see how this bankruptcy plays out before pulling the trigger?

The fact is, if you're okay today, you're okay in every way. If you are sitting in front of your computer and you're not suffering physically at this moment. If at this moment everything is okay--they everything is okay. No one knows what the next moment will bring--so don't make decisions now about what might happen down the road. The world is too uncertain for that kind of thinking.

As for letting your family down--what did you think? Did you think you could hold up the world for them forever? Do they expect that from you? If you are doing what you can for them, then that's all you can do. If you are acting in their best interests in whatever way you are capable of doing with whatever means you have at your disposal at this time, then you are doing all you can for your family. If your family is asking more of you than you can do for them, then they are the ones letting you down.

For now, follow the advice of your lawyer, and remember: no one knows about tomorrow--even when they think they do. So, if you're okay today, you're okay in every way.

Good luck, Highlife, and keep us posted.

[frogger]

Also, just wanted to make something clear. I have discussed all of the problems and possibilities with my family, including my parents as well. Just didn't want to have any one think I was keeping anything from my family. Just trying to absorb most of the daily stress, instead of letting it hit my family. Trying to keep their lives as normal as possible.

That was the key for me. My darling wife, the parents, my sibling, my kids. The situation was discussed with each of them and advice was asked for. Each and every one of them was on board with what we did and have been each step of the way.

And as you'll hear many times on this board......

We should have done this several years ago!

[AbbeyA]

One other thing -- my dh is the one who ran the business. In no way do I blame him for what happened. It was not his fault and I will always stand by that and him. We are in this mess together and are lucky to have each other. Don't let yourself think your family blames you, it is not your fault the economy is what it is.

You are always going to be able to look back and say to yourself ... "I should have done this differently, I shouldn't have done this" ... etc. As they say, hindsight is 20/20 -- everything in front of us is a big guess. I'll say it again, do not let this define you - you are much more than this and your family knows it.

[highlife]

I agree with so much of what everyone has been saying. It is amazing how similar this resembles the stages of grief in that my emotions and feelings seem to be constantly changing. The fear is always there, but the other emotions are all over the place. Some days, it is all I can do not to tear up all day, while other days I seem to have a handle on it. It's also amazing how quickly that can change multiple times within a single day.

I also agree with the fact that this forum is almost like an AA group in terms of support. That exact choice of words is somewhat ironic in that, when I thought I needed to find support group for this, that is exactly what I was hoping to find. I will keep everyone up to date as I progress through the BK process. Maybe those people who read the forum, but are afraid to post will find comfort in hearing about my situation. I hope that once my journey is complete, I can be there to help encourage and support others, to return the kindness that you have shown me.

Also, when I meant that my family may be better off without me, I didn't mean that I was thinking about checking myself out. Sorry about the way I worded that, but I really appreaciate the kind thoughts that were expressed. I just meant that my wife and kids might be better off if they weren't married to me, etc. Again , didn't mean to raise any alarms on that one. I'm too selfish in that I couldn't stand the thought of not seeing my kiddos grow up to do that.

This will be a whale of a case, as due to the business loans, we are talking about almost $700K-$800k. Can't imagine anyone just letting me file chapter 7 and walk away without a fight.

Thank you again to everyone, and I hope that other people reading this, who maybe afraid to make their own posts, feel a little better too.

[researchnerd]

From where we are now and what we have experienced so far, my advice would be to love your wife and children/family, believe and know that you are not the cause of all of this. We have been experiencing the worst economy since the Great Depression. Thousands of small businesses fail and thousands of small business owners manage to pick themselves up and not let that define them. DO NOT let this define you! Do your best not to argue with your spouse, do your best to support each other emotionally and don't run from a conversation - however difficult it is to have.

This is so true and appropriate that I thought it bore reposting. I completely agree with the parallels to the stages of grief too. BK is traumatic in a hundred different ways. Part of the reason it's so difficult is that it's about what you don't have, and I've found that it can help to remind yourself in some way of what you do have. Even something as simple as going out for cheeseburgers after months of scrimping and eating at home can make a big difference. Go for a walk in the park together, or on the beach. Or cook dinner together as a family. Hug your kids. Talk to your spouse, and don't blame each other. Think of one thing every day you can be thankful for. The BK is not your life.

The other thing that's helped me is keeping a journal. Mine is online in blog format (anonymously), but even if you just take a few minutes each day to write down your thoughts in a little notebook, it can help clear your head tremendously. Don't be afraid of the dark thoughts...write those down too. You gotta feel them in order to let them go. When it gets really bad, allow yourself to wallow in it for a few minutes and then be done with it. The other benefit to keeping a journal is that you can look back a year from now and go wow...look how far we've come!

[highlife]

The emotional rollercoaster is so much bigger than I could have ever imagined. I felt really good all day yesterday that everything would work out in the end. That ended at about 9:00pm. Found out that bank that has the third position on house is starting to foreclose. My family knows about the pending BK, but now I will have to tell them the bank has already filed for forclosure. It's also both of my parent's birthdays this weekend...so what a great gift from me... saddling them with more worries and concerns...I'm such a great son.

Never in my life have I been more ashamed of what or who I am. I am right back to the deep dark place that hopes I don't wake up in the morning. At least my family would get my life insurance and end up having a better future.

Honestly, I don't think I am literally going to survive through this anymore. I can actually physically feel the stress in my chest and arms. Not to mention never sleeping, etc. I just hope that if I have a heart attack or a stroke that it finshes me off. I would hate for it to leave me around, and end up being a bigger burden to my family than I already am.

Everyday just seems to get worse. If I actually knew what or when the worst part was, then I could at least look forward to getting to that point and getting it over with. The attorney says that this is going to be very very nasty, and has the chance to linger on long after any BK if it doesn't get discharged, which there may be a chance of happening.

I really don't care what happens to me. I don't care if I end up living in a box under a bridge. I just can't bear the thought of my family suffering for my mistakes. I am almost to the point of telling my wife should should leave me so her and the kids can at least have a better life going forward. I don't want them chained to my sinking ship, and have their childhoods and lives ruined just because they had the misfortune of being my child or wife.

I've always thought that I have a strong faith, and that God only gives us what we can handle. I am starting to strongly think that He severely overestimated what I can handle at this point.

I just hope that other people that feel scared, alone, and ashamed read these posts and can feel that at least there is someone who is worse off than they are. Perhaps it will give someone else hope. Maybe that's all I have left to offer this world anymore.