Question Need Help! BK from 1992 now BK from H**l

[33ayy]

Hello!

I declared BK in 1992(!) because of a single debt to a wealthy individual who had sued me in 1990 over a 20K business loan and gotten a judgment. The individual now runs a philanthropic organization.

All these many years I've thought that debt was "gone." But yesterday, to my horror, I received in the mail a "Proof of Service" on it. It seems that the individual has been getting the judgment renewed every 10 years, and now sold it to a collection attorney. There is no dollar amount listed on the papers. This came out of the blue. I have never been contacted and no judgment has ever appeared on my credit report.

I no longer have any records pertaining to the BK, and am in the process of having a clerk look for them--but, since it predates electronic media, it seems that it will take quite a while. The clerk was not hopeful.

An internet search group did some poking and said, though they can't know for sure since they can't see the original docs, it looks like it may have been "terminated without a discharge" AAAAAHHH!!!!

Is this possible? Wouldn't I know if the debt hadn't been discharged? Wouldn't the BK attorney have known?

I called the BK attorney's office but the receptionist basically said they can't do anything until I get the old court docs--they don't have them either. She kind of refused to put my call through to the lawyer.

Should I contact the collection attorney/agency? Can they suddenly garnish everything I have with this old judgment?

I understand that this 20K debt could be generating 10% interest this whole time, so now it could be closer to 100K.

I am really terrified since I am dependent on the assets I have to support my kids.

What can they do to me before I manage to get the old records pulled? What if it turns out the judgment was not discharged? Can they really suddenly come after me after 20 years for everything I own?

Help!

Juliet

[ForumReader]

Hello!

I declared BK in 1992(!) because of a single debt to a wealthy individual who had sued me in 1990 over a 20K business loan and gotten a judgment. The individual now runs a philanthropic organization.

All these many years I've thought that debt was "gone." But yesterday, to my horror, I received in the mail a "Proof of Service" on it. It seems that the individual has been getting the judgment renewed every 10 years, and now sold it to a collection attorney. There is no dollar amount listed on the papers. This came out of the blue. I have never been contacted and no judgment has ever appeared on my credit report.

I no longer have any records pertaining to the BK, and am in the process of having a clerk look for them--but, since it predates electronic media, it seems that it will take quite a while. The clerk was not hopeful.

An internet search group did some poking and said, though they can't know for sure since they can't see the original docs, it looks like it may have been "terminated without a discharge" AAAAAHHH!!!!

Is this possible? Wouldn't I know if the debt hadn't been discharged? Wouldn't the BK attorney have known?

I called the BK attorney's office but the receptionist basically said they can't do anything until I get the old court docs--they don't have them either. She kind of refused to put my call through to the lawyer.

Should I contact the collection attorney/agency? Can they suddenly garnish everything I have with this old judgment?

I understand that this 20K debt could be generating 10% interest this whole time, so now it could be closer to 100K.

I am really terrified since I am dependent on the assets I have to support my kids.

What can they do to me before I manage to get the old records pulled? What if it turns out the judgment was not discharged? Can they really suddenly come after me after 20 years for everything I own?

Help!

Juliet

If I understand this correctly, you filed BK after the judgement took place, but never removed from your court records? I suggest you gather your old BK papers and get advice from a BK attorney how to handle this old judgement. I do not think they should go after you for a 20 year old judgement especially if you have filed for BK at that time. I assume you received your discharge and that your case was closed back then in 1992? Hopefully this forum gurus will chime in with their advice. Good luck and hang in there!

[Exployer1234]

I would go to the court house and ask for a copy of the old BK from 92. They should havwe a copy of it. Have you registered to go on PACER and see if anything shows up? I don't know how far back they go, but my 12 year old BK was listed on there.

If it was not discharged then you may want to think about filing again.

ALso isn't there a SOL on how far back someone can collect? Maybe someone elese can help out on this question.

[Charlie777]

The SOL is a defense against a lawsuit, but once the judgement has been granted the judgement is there, and after 20 years there's no way to go back and appeal it. From what I've been told in the past, a creditor can do exactly what's been described here, file to keep renewing the judgement and when the debtor has something to collect from, act to collect.

If the bankruptcy was never discharged, and was in fact dismissed, it had no effect and won't protect against execution on the judgement.

Now if the bankruptcy was dismissed and you can prove you weren't told by your attorney (who is apparently still practicing) you may have a malpractice claim.

[33ayy]

Does anybody know if it's possible to get a judgment renewed, even if the debt resulting from the judgment has previously been discharged?

[ColoradoBell]

Sending good thoughts and Hugs because this really is a BK from hell...or at least a judgment creditor from hell.

Hope that the BK back then was actually discharged . Any chance if it is still there that it could be avoided? (if it were really gathering interest and up to $100k now.....and depending on your homestead exemption, your mortgages etc.....you might be able to avoid it once and for all. I sure hope so!!!!!

[catleg]

My chapter 7 from 1997 shows a filing date, a discharge date, and a termination date on Pacer. If you wish to PM me with your details I'll take a look on Pacer for you and see what yours looks like.

[33ayy]

Thanks very much, I pm'd you details. On the edge of my seat here. Wow, everybody's worst nightmare, I guess. I was pretty young at the time, and none too savvy about legal/financial matters. I'm trying to be zen about it.

[Charlie777]

There are other threads here describing that once you have a discharge, you use the discharge to have the judgements vacated. I think that would be best done right after you get the discharge, this thread started with an old judgement and an old bankruptcy. Whether we're talking about an original judgement, or one that's been renewed, the way to get rid of it is to file the discharge from the Bankruptcy Court with the court that granted the judgemnent to have the judgement vacated.

[spearmint]

Aren't some judgments non-dischargeable, though?

[33ayy]

There are some judgments that are not dischargable in BK (child support, fraud etc.) but this was not one. It was a regular loan from a private investor for a business venture, with my personal guarantee.

I have considered that maybe they objected to the discharge claiming that I borrowed the money fraudulently, but I can't imagine how that would be supported.

And I assume I would have known if they litigated to have the bk dismissed, or discharge of that debt blocked, or whatever. I just cannot imagine how that could have happened without my knowledge.

That was the only debt I had, and the bk always showed up on my credit report--but maybe that doesn't mean anything.

[WhatMoney]

Does anybody know if it's possible to get a judgment renewed, even if the debt resulting from the judgment has previously been discharged?

Sure they can, if the court issuing the judgment, a state court, was never notified of the discharged debt, and you never requested the judgment to be vacated at the state court. Some still think judgments go away when the underlying debt is discharged. Not true of course - removing judgments issued before a BK require extra legal procedures after the BK discharge.

You will need to find your old BK papers. But you could answer the present summons by presenting your old BK discharge papers showing that the debt was discharged and then request the judgment finally be vacated. Best done by an attorney.

[kornellred]

Once you have the discharge papers, you will be able to have the pre-bankruptcy judgment set aside with no problem - precisely because the debt has been discharged and cannot be collected.