real estate value question

[PyroGuy]

I agree with quicksale value, but really...in this market, most of us are upside down anyway.

It doesn't matter what the value is (at least in my case), as long as it is less than my first mortgage.

IMO, you could get a real estate agent to do it on letter head...but having an actual certified appraisal that is signed and willing to be "backed up" if needed is well worth the $250. A real estate agent won't be "accountable" for assessing the value, and might have trouble if the value comes into question.

I change my value...if you are going shortsale value....$65,000

[Tman]

Hi, I am a real estate appraiser myself, so I maybe able to shed some light on your situation. First off depending on the area where you live, your home may not have decreased in value at all. The decreases in values you hear about in the news is skewed by tremendously huge decreases in certain markets like California, Florida and Nevada. Not all markets have seen decreases. So having an appraisal done may or may not help you out. Having said that, I would go with the $100,000 figure you have calculated. Like some have said, call around and get some CMAs from realtors for free. If the TT or a creditor objects you can always have it appraised later. I doubt anyone will disagree with your assesment if you have some data to back it up. Save the $250 until you need it. You may also find that if the TT objects to your opinion, he or she maybe just as likely to object to an appraisal which was paid for by you and completed on your behalf. The TT may in fact order an appraisal from someone else to verify or refute the value you have provided.
BTW, the reason the appraisal is cheaper, is because the appraiser does not have to provide a slew of additional lender required forms and addenda, few if any of which had anything to the actual analysis being completed.

[jdcat]

IMO, you could get a real estate agent to do it on letter head...but having an actual certified appraisal that is signed and willing to be "backed up" if needed is well worth the $250. A real estate agent won't be "accountable" for assessing the value, and might have trouble if the value comes into question.

I change my value...if you are going shortsale value....$65,000

That is my thought also pyroguy. I want to show the trustee that I did my best to obtain a true value in a way that is totally legit.

I have to thank you for your humor, you have definitely lightened the mood for me today! *big smiles*

[jdcat]

Hi, I am a real estate appraiser myself, so I maybe able to shed some light on your situation. First off depending on the area where you live, your home may not have decreased in value at all. The decreases in values you hear about in the news is skewed by tremendously huge decreases in certain markets like California, Florida and Nevada. Not all markets have seen decreases. So having an appraisal done may or may not help you out. Having said that, I would go with the $100,000 figure you have calculated. Like some have said, call around and get some CMAs from realtors for free. If the TT or a creditor objects you can always have it appraised later. I doubt anyone will disagree with your assesment if you have some data to back it up. Save the $250 until you need it. You may also find that if the TT objects to your opinion, he or she maybe just as likely to object to an appraisal which was paid for by you and completed on your behalf. The TT may in fact order an appraisal from someone else to verify or refute the value you have provided.
BTW, the reason the appraisal is cheaper, is because the appraiser does not have to provide a slew of additional lender required forms and addenda, few if any of which had anything to the actual analysis being completed.

Thank you so much for chiming in Tman, especially because you work in appraisal. Our area hasn't been hit the way other areas have. My sister lives in Nevada and is getting ready to file chapter 7 and walk away from a home that is so far under water there is no hope of recovery. With the research that I've done I've noticed that home prices here have actually remained pretty stable with just a little fluctuation. Because the market isn't too bad here is why we didn't want to go any lower than 100K.

I hadn't considered the fact that the tt may not like an appraisal that was done on my behalf, but wouldn't a cma, which is really just a guesstimate, be seen as "worse" than an appraisal? I'm asking because I really don't know.

[Tman]

jdcat, the reason I suggest a CMA, even though it is taking money from a fellow appraiser's pocket is two fold. #1 you could spend the $250 and have the report completed in the hopes that it comes in where you want it to and that the TT accepts it. #2 a CMA will probably cost you nothing and if the TT doesn't accept it then you still have the $250 to pay for the appraiser ordered by the TT. I guess I am just looking at probabilities. You could be out $600 to $700 on two appraisals or you may get by with the free CMA. I'd take my chances with the CMA. You really have nothing to lose but could save $600 or so. Plus I don't know that how much the TT or a creditor is really going to bother. Consider how many people file with no idea what their house is worth. You just happened to have had an appraisal in the past two years, most people are not in that position. If it were me, I'd take my chances. You will have documentation from several realtors. That may be all the TT is looking for - something tangible to base an opinion on.

[Tman]

I agree with quicksale value, but really...in this market, most of us are upside down anyway.

It doesn't matter what the value is (at least in my case), as long as it is less than my first mortgage.

IMO, you could get a real estate agent to do it on letter head...but having an actual certified appraisal that is signed and willing to be "backed up" if needed is well worth the $250. A real estate agent won't be "accountable" for assessing the value, and might have trouble if the value comes into question.

I change my value...if you are going shortsale value....$65,000

Pyro, I am positive that the appraiser will not be appearing on jdcat's behaf for $250.00. It isn't that the appraiser doesn't want to stand behid his work. It is just that when jdcat engaged the appraiser it was for a report and not testimony. Testimony could run into several hundred dollars in additional fees for the appraiser's time.

[Mensa1]

Ok, so I should tell the appraiser that we are looking for a quick sale value? Will "quick sale value" be stated on the appraisal? And would that be ok for bankruptcy purposes? I'm totally unfamiliar with all of this.

Better yet, tell the appraiser that you would like an appraisal value that sounds a whole lot like NINETY THOUSAND DOLLARS.

[Mensa1]

Pyro, I am positive that the appraiser will not be appearing on jdcat's behaf for $250.00. It isn't that the appraiser doesn't want to stand behid his work. It is just that when jdcat engaged the appraiser it was for a report and not testimony. Testimony could run into several hundred dollars in additional fees for the appraiser's time.

The appraiser would prob do expert testimony... for $ 200 hr, port to port; (which means travel time from the time he leaves home/office until he returns to the same spot).

[NewPage]

If the place is only $100K, you should be able to get an appraisal for under $250, and probably for like $200. Shop around!

My husband is an appraiser. In our area he charges $425 and up, as does every other appraiser in the area.

In a non-loan instance it won't matter so much, but dishonest appraisers are part of what screwed the lending/housing market, by meeting the inflated sales prices demanded by mortgage brokers and such.

[justbroke]

In a non-loan instance it won't matter so much, but dishonest appraisers are part of what screwed the lending/housing market, by meeting the inflated sales prices demanded by mortgage brokers and such.

That may be the reason. In Florida, appraisers are about a dime a dozen, so you can actually find good prices. My home was last appraised by a person who has been an appraiser over 20 years, and has held a full license, not "apprentice" for that time. I liked him. I paid $300 for my last appraisal.

[NewPage]

That may be the reason. In Florida, appraisers are about a dime a dozen, so you can actually find good prices. My home was last appraised by a person who has been an appraiser over 20 years, and has held a full license, not "apprentice" for that time. I liked him. I paid $300 for my last appraisal.

Oh, in larger/more populated areas appraiser fees stink. We are lucky that living in a rural area, my husband can charge more. He started his business in 1998, charging $400 for a standard appraisal. At this time the base is $425. People pay it b/c it's what everyone charges here. He gets calls all the time asking him to do work for $225-$250. If the *volume* was there maybe that would be more do-able, but it's not. We have to eat too, ya know? What other industry has cut their prices over the past 10+ years? I can't think of any. Yet appraisers are expected to take less and smile about it at the same time.

The appraisal industry is taking the punishments that SHOULD BE doled out to the mortgage industry.

[Tman]

Newpage, you certainly have the facts right. Around here a full fee is around $350. But I'd do non-bank appraisals all day for $250. The reason being is that you don't have to use the FNMA forms, that constrict the analysis absence a fifteen page addendum explaining yourself. Non-bank appraisals are completed using the same methods as a bank appraisal but just don't require pages of addenda to explain the process. I have Appraisal Management Companies call everyday trying to get me to complete assignments at $175 to $200 and then require 24 hour TAT, plus all the addenda and restrictions that simply don't apply to the rural area I live in.
You are also absolutely correct in the appraisal industry being punished for the misdeeds of the government and the lenders.

[ColoradoBell]

I hope you listen to Tman and save yourself $250.
A CMA from a Realtor is going to come really close to the current market and they give you the same or better sales comps to justify the price.

[NewPage]

Newpage, you certainly have the facts right. Around here a full fee is around $350. But I'd do non-bank appraisals all day for $250. The reason being is that you don't have to use the FNMA forms, that constrict the analysis absence a fifteen page addendum explaining yourself. Non-bank appraisals are completed using the same methods as a bank appraisal but just don't require pages of addenda to explain the process. I have Appraisal Management Companies call everyday trying to get me to complete assignments at $175 to $200 and then require 24 hour TAT, plus all the addenda and restrictions that simply don't apply to the rural area I live in.

You are also absolutely correct in the appraisal industry being punished for the misdeeds of the government and the lenders.

That does make sense re: fewer forms and not having to deal with all the addenda and restrictions and *hassle* some AMCs bring to the table. 24 hour TAT is ridiculous, especially when you're dealing with rural props and have to chase comps all over Kingdom Come!

Sorry to head off on a tangent, OP!

[jdcat]

jdcat, the reason I suggest a CMA, even though it is taking money from a fellow appraiser's pocket is two fold. #1 you could spend the $250 and have the report completed in the hopes that it comes in where you want it to and that the TT accepts it. #2 a CMA will probably cost you nothing and if the TT doesn't accept it then you still have the $250 to pay for the appraiser ordered by the TT. I guess I am just looking at probabilities. You could be out $600 to $700 on two appraisals or you may get by with the free CMA. I'd take my chances with the CMA. You really have nothing to lose but could save $600 or so. Plus I don't know that how much the TT or a creditor is really going to bother. Consider how many people file with no idea what their house is worth. You just happened to have had an appraisal in the past two years, most people are not in that position. If it were me, I'd take my chances. You will have documentation from several realtors. That may be all the TT is looking for - something tangible to base an opinion on.

Your reasoning is sound Tman and I agree with it.

The bolded part is what is really getting to me. I can't understand how anyone can file without knowing for sure! It just seems so reckless and I don't want to do that even if there is a good chance our home value wouldn't be questioned at all. I want to cover all my bases.

I think no matter which way I go I'll be taking my chances. My decision though is going to be based off when we file. I found out yesterday that our attorney may file us today depending on whether he can get us and a few other filers all set so he can file us together. Not holding my breath lol! If we get filed today then I'll have to cancel the appraisal, there would be no point because I wouldn't be able to change the numbers anyway. If we do get filed today though I will definitely have some cma's done for the sake of having documentation and save the $250.

Thank you for all of your input Tman you have been most helpful.