Paralegals (Now I understand why everyone gets so frustrated with them)

[SMinGA]

Was trying to set a visit with an attorney, by corresponding w/ a paralegal.

He asked when & which office - even though I'd already given that info.

I responded @ 8-8:30 am on X date, or 11:30-noon on the same date. Restated either of 2 particular offices.

Reply came back - appointment made for 9am.

I replied that I can't do 9am, have a 10am obligation near the house on the same day.

He responded - no problem, have changed the appointment to 10am.

To which I replied by telling him to re-read my last reply and that I had not yet mastered the art of being in 2 places at once.

Are paralegals students intending to become lawyers (scary thought) or simply someone with minimal skills willing to work for a pittance? Yikes!

[Jackdog]

That would scare me. I contacted the attorney I chose through emails his paralegal is on it. She responded back before the end of day asking me what my schedule was like. I emailed back the day I wanted but had to be at work that day by 2pm. She emailed me back right away asking if I wanted 10 or 11am.

[SMinGA]

On the bright side: I decided this was not an office I'd care to deal with before I got in 'too deep'.

(I have an attorney, but am just scouting around in case I can find someone better. Getting ready to refile a dismissed - voluntarily - case this summer.)

[LadyInTheRed]

Are paralegals students intending to become lawyers (scary thought) or simply someone with minimal skills willing to work for a pittance? Yikes!

While some law students may work as paralegals, they usually work in law firms doing research and legal analysis.

The skills, knowledge and education of a paralegal vary from state to state, office to office and paralegal to paralegal. In some states, paralegals are regulated and there are qualifications they must meet. In other states it's up to the attorneys who hire them. Paralegal associations lobby for more regulation to help weed out the unqualified paralegals that give all of us a bad image.

I am a paralegal, but not in BK. I started in a small firm as a secretary/office manager and only employee for two attorneys. I paid attention to the work the attorneys were doing, asked questions and took initiative to do tasks that went beyond what clerical staff would do. After about 6 years, my boss realized I was doing substantive legal work that he should be billing for. At the time, California had no laws regulating paralegals. But, my boss sent me to paralegal school so that he could justify billing my time. Legislation has since been passed in California requiring practical experience and education. But the standards are not very high and there is no monitoring to ensure compliance with the law other than internal law firm procedures and perhaps questions on malpractice insurance applications.

Some paralegals are like me and worked up from other positions in law firms. Some have never stepped inside a law firm, but were looking for a career change, heard it was a good job and enrolled in paralegal school. Other's just stumbled upon a help wanted ad and applied. I work with one paralegal who was a lawyer in another state, failed the California Bar Exam and decided not to try again.

Whether a paralegal makes a "pittance" depends largely on the area of law they work in. I believe paralegals working in the areas of Intellectual Property and Estate Planning/Administration tend to be among the highest paid. I don't know what BK paralegal pay rates are like.

I now work in a much larger firm. The partner I work considers my work to be at the level of an attorney. Young attorneys often come to me to answers questions before they take time to research things I might know off the top of my head. However, we all know that EVERYTHING I do must be supervised by an attorney. Regardless of anyone's confidence in a paralegal, a well-trained and qualified paralegal will insist she is properly supervised to make sure she is not engaging in the unauthorized practice of law. She also knows when to have a client talk to the attorney.

On the bright side: I decided this was not an office I'd care to deal with before I got in 'too deep'.

Sounds like the right decision. The paralegal you were dealing with didn't even have the attention to detail necessary to set an appointment time. I'd hate to see the schedules he'd prepare!

Paralegals can be very valuable to a client. We can perform much of the work an attorney can at a much lower billable rate. I have some clients who always contact me first because they know I'm cheaper and can often answer their questions, many of which are procedural. I know when to answer a client's question, when to tell them I will get back to them after discussing their question with the attorney and when to have them speak directly to an attorney. Anytime a client seems even slightly unsatisfied with the info I provide, I suggest they speak with an attorney.

Another advantage to paralegals is that we often are better at breaking things down into details than an attorney is. We can do the detail work and present the facts to an attorney in a manner that allows him to clearly see and focus on the legal issues.

From what I've read on these forums, there seem to be various problems people have working with paralegals. Many people who post about problems can't seem to get access to an attorney and are only able to speak to the paralegal. My guess is that these offices have too high a paralegal-to-attorney ratio and the paralegals are not properly supervised. The attorneys have too heavy a case load to properly manage. As a paralegal, I would refuse to work under those conditions. This is what I would describe as a bankruptcy mill. As a potential client, I would run. Yes, they are cheap, but you get what you pay for.

There are times when I read a post and get the feeling that a paralegal messed something up and is trying to cover for it. The client needs to insist they speak to the attorney and the attorney needs to be made aware this is going on.

Other times, I think clients are under the impression they have no choice but to do what the paralegal recommends. Again, as the client, you need to take control and insist you speak directly to the attorney. A good paralegal will not hesitate to put you into direct contact with the attorney. It can't always happen as quickly as you'd like. Remember, there are other clients and what you view as an emergency may not really be as urgent as you think. But, a good paralegal will reassure you that things will be handled and then make sure they are.

When interviewing an attorney who works with a paralegal you should ask about the paralegal's qualifications, what their level of involvement will be in your case and what kind of procedures are in place to insure they are properly supervised. Most importantly, ask whether you will have direct access to the attorney without having to go through the paralegal. If the answer to the last question is not an unqualified "of course you can contact me anytime. If I'm not available, I'll get back to you as soon as I can," find another attorney. You are hiring an attorney, not a paralegal.

Okay, I went on for a long time. I hope my perspective can help people understand the roll of a paralegal and help everyone realize that the quality of paralegals vary greatly. A paralegal can be a huge advantage to a client if she is properly trained and supervised and understands the limits of her roll. The attorney that employs her, must also understand the proper roll of a paralegal and provide adequate supervision. A client needs to understand that a paralegal is not a replacement for an attorney and should not accept one as a replacement.

[tigergem]

Was trying to set a visit with an attorney, by corresponding w/ a paralegal.

He asked when & which office - even though I'd already given that info.

I responded @ 8-8:30 am on X date, or 11:30-noon on the same date. Restated either of 2 particular offices.

Reply came back - appointment made for 9am.

I replied that I can't do 9am, have a 10am obligation near the house on the same day.

He responded - no problem, have changed the appointment to 10am.

To which I replied by telling him to re-read my last reply and that I had not yet mastered the art of being in 2 places at once.

Are paralegals students intending to become lawyers (scary thought) or simply someone with minimal skills willing to work for a pittance? Yikes!

Wharton Follies. Seems appropriate here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1y8ESrmE0A

I feel your frustration. I have had more than my fair share of dealing with blatantly obtuse life forms this week.

[Flamingo]

Was trying to set a visit with an attorney, by corresponding w/ a paralegal.

He asked when & which office - even though I'd already given that info.

I responded @ 8-8:30 am on X date, or 11:30-noon on the same date. Restated either of 2 particular offices.

Reply came back - appointment made for 9am.

I replied that I can't do 9am, have a 10am obligation near the house on the same day.

He responded - no problem, have changed the appointment to 10am.

To which I replied by telling him to re-read my last reply and that I had not yet mastered the art of being in 2 places at once.

Are paralegals students intending to become lawyers (scary thought) or simply someone with minimal skills willing to work for a pittance? Yikes!

Well, as a paralegal, I can state the person you were dealing with was either the office receptionist or the attorney's assistant...paralegals usually do not schedule appointments so if that was the paralegal, he was not used to scheduling office appointments. You may not have known that but there are exceptions to everything and the person you describe could be anyone in any office setting, not just a paralegal. Most of us work hard for our clients and I work for attorneys who go above and beyond what is necessary so I am the same with clients. Please note I do not work in the BK field nor would want to because I have seen how crazy and nuts it is with having some friends working in big firms handling BKs. Anyone could be "someone with minimal skills willing to work for a pittance" - not just paralegals...I should tell you about the clerk I encountered at Wal-Mart checkout the other day who rang one item through three times while talking to me and didn't credit the order until I mentioned it to her...or the counter person at StarBucks who couldn't count the change correctly, or the person at the gas station sandwich counter the other day who could not take orders correctly...Why it's easy to complain, these folks could just be having a bad day, have sick kids at home on their mind or their spouse just got laid off...

I'll tell you - I don't work "for a pittance." Great job area to get into. Lots of work, though, and long hours...

[LadyInTheRed]

Flamingo's post reminds me of a common problem with titles.

Some people are called "legal assistants". Sometimes this means a secretary and sometimes it means a paralegal; sometimes it's a person who doesn't have the skills of either, like a high school student in a summer job. The firm I work for used to refer to paralegals as legal assistants. But some attorneys would refer to their secretaries as assistants. This caused a lot of confusion. We finally insisted they call paralegals paralegals. If you hear somebody referred to as a legal assistant, ask what that means.

[SMinGA]

Very good idea. I think its standard to question the attorney as to his/her experience, but not about the qualifications of their staff.

When interviewing an attorney who works with a paralegal you should ask about the paralegal's qualifications, what their level of involvement will be in your case and what kind of procedures are in place to insure they are properly supervised. Most importantly, ask whether you will have direct access to the attorney without having to go through the paralegal. If the answer to the last question is not an unqualified "of course you can contact me anytime. If I'm not available, I'll get back to you as soon as I can," find another attorney. You are hiring an attorney, not a paralegal.

[optimistic1]

Yeah, paralegals are never ever wrong, they always have some type of excuse or reason as to why they suck so bad. My job has its own trials and tribulations as well, but I still keep my cool and deliver on my responsibilities without excuse. My paralegal is an idiot, she was like "here sign these forms" with numerous inaccuracies that were clearly written in detail on their questionnaire, to which she never even read. I refuse to unless it is accurate, its a federal court document, are you kidding me?

[LadyInTheRed]

Nobody said paralegals are never wrong. You can't say that about any profession or any person for that matter.

You should refuse to sign anything that is inaccurate and any paralegal or attorney who suggests you do so or asks you sign something you haven't had time to fully review IS an idiot. If you aren't happy with the paralegal, perhaps you should discuss your complaints with the attorney. You hired an attorney, not a paralegal.

[optimistic1]

Oh well they are both idiots, its called rock and a hard place for me sister.

[LadyInTheRed]

Sorry you're having such a hard time, optomistic1. Keep on top of those idiots and don't let up. If you push enough, they'll be inspired to get things done for you, CORRECTLY, so they can be done with you.