Another Means Test question

[loser104]

My girlfriend is living with me in my townhome here in michigan. Can I count her as being in my household? Read elsewhere on this forum that I can, but can anyone verify this. She only contributes about $100 in groceries, and pays for the cable bill, $50. Other than that, I do not receive any other help from here, she doesn't make much money and her plate is full, so to speak. That would really ensure a chapter 7 for me as far as the means test is concerned.

Also, if I end up under the median income for 2 people in a household on the means test, do I even need to continue to fill out the household expenses? It says that I don't, so I'm guessing not. What I'm trying to ask is this, could I be under the median income on the means test, thereby qualifying me for a ch. 7, yet show xxx amount of disposable income each month on my schedules, and have the trustee rule for a ch.13 payment plan??? From what I have been reading, once I take the means test and come out UNDER the median, I stop right there and do not proceed..............ch.7, open and shut case! Am I wrong?

Also, what if I am OVER the median by a few hundred dollars, then I am required to complete the next part, which is expenses. For just the means test, it does not let me input MY OWN NUMBERS for some items such as food, clothing, etc, and housing costs and utilities............so I am assuming that it is ok to use the median numbers provided (not that I have a choice), which end up being higher than my actual numbers. Does this all sound right? So using their median numbers I get "THERE IS NO PRESUMPTION OF ABUSE", therefore I qualify for ch.7. Do I still end up using the schedules? Those schedules may then show me with disposable income since my numbers are lower than some of those median ones used in the means test. So then what??? Now I'm back to a ch. 13 payment plan??? The more I learn, the more confused I am. Will consult an attorney, but not quite yet, wanna do my own research first.

[coolmom04]

I don't know all the answers to your questions, but I'm almost 100% certain that in any district, ALL income from people living in the home MUST be included. So, even if you are filing alone and your girlfriend lives with you and has an income, you must include her income on the means test.

If you are over the median (and it sounds like you will be if you include your girlfriend's income), that doesn't automatically mean you don't qualify for ch7. "It's all about expenses." You'll hear that a lot here and it's totally true. We're about $5K over the median and qualify.

I am not sure the laws/rules about counting her expenses on the means test/schedule J since she has her own income. I know for us, my husband filed alone and I am unemployed so he was able to count all my expenses. At least, I think that's why he was able to count mine.. I could be wrong.

More people will respond with more answers, but wanted to throw that out there...

[tigergem]

The NOLO web site says no on the girlfriend thing. Specifically, it says this:

At least one site on the web has addressed this issue. King's Bankruptcy Media (a lawyer's website) states what appears to be the correct rule: that, if a roommate or domestic partner is contributing income to the household, then that portion of the roommate's income must be included in the overall amount of 'household income' on line 8 of the official form, where it asks for "contributions to household income."

and this:

The official form seems to suggest that the issue is whether the person is part of the household and is a dependent. That is, you can't include a roommate who is not your dependent in your household size, yet you may have to include the portion of their income that contributes to the overall income of the household. See the help topic on that subject.

[SMinGA]

The schedules I and J are required for any BK filing. You can't skip them.

[tigergem]

The schedules I and J are required for any BK filing. You can't skip them.

If you fall under median income you don't have to complete the entire means test. It says "stop here".

No. You cannot skip the schedules.

[loser104]

So I can "stop here" if I am under the median........BUT I still have to complete the schedules, correct?

So then what if the schedules show that I have disposable income, then what?

[coolmom04]

So I can "stop here" if I am under the median........BUT I still have to complete the schedules, correct?

So then what if the schedules show that I have disposable income, then what?

Yes and I am pretty sure it depends on the amount of the disposable income. If it's over a certain amount (can't remember the number off the top of my head), then you may have to file ch13 b/c it means you have the funds for ch13.

[tigergem]

This is where your plan becomes a true work of art. I am under median and I am in a Chapter 13 by choice. I could have very easily worked my budget and expenses to a Chapter 7, but I chose not to. Chapter 7 didn't meet my needs. So this is where you want to work the numbers to your best advantage. Just don't be terribly unrealistic about it, and create your best possible outcome.