Father filed...causing problems for me...HELP!

[kristierenee]

Hi everyone! My name is Kristie and I'm from Tennessee.

I found out almost two weeks ago that my father (who resides in Mississippi), whom I've been estranged from for 3 years, is filing chapter 7 bankruptcy. He is primary borrower on my car loan (it allowed for a better interest rate at the time).

Now, here's where things get complicated.

1. I wouldn't have found out about the filing if I hadn't tried to pay my car note online only to find out that it's now being serviced by an acquisition company that Capital One uses.

After paying for PACER, I found all court documents for the bankruptcy...including the creditor list with my name on it and my father's address listed for me.

I have never lived with him...in fact, I live 10 hours away, though he has my current address. This was obviously done in an effort to thwart me from finding out. This was further confirmed to me when his attorney advised me that HE gave her that address. Is it legal to knowingly list an incorrect address for a creditor on your bankruptcy? He had a correct address since he mailed me something in November of 2009.

2. I only owe $2400 on my car. I had a claim through insurance that I never cashed a check for that I intend to use to pay it off along with another months payment. His attorney is discouraging me from doing so because HE is over the limit on personal exemptions. She tried talking me into putting the car through redemption, however I felt uncomfortable and asked around only to find out that I would still be responsible for the entire balance of the car because I am listed as cosigner.

Because I called her out on this and my incorrect address on the creditor list, she's now angry at ME and telling me to have my attorney (which I wouldn't have thought I would need since I'M not filing) contact her.

This whole situation is compounded by the fact that IF I go ahead and pay off the car now, the acquisition company is telling me the title will be sent to HIS attorney. HE has never had possession of this car, nor does he have the registration or insurance on it...much less EVER made a payment. I feel like if he gets that title, I'm never going to get it because he's JUST that vengeful of a person (personal history leads me to this fear).

Does anyone have ANY direction for me here? I feel like I'M being punished and I'm not the one that filed.

I can't get him or his attorney to understand that this IS hurting me and IS hindering me. I'm terrified that he's going to do something underhanded and have my car taken from me.

His creditor meeting is Tuesday and I have NO idea what to do. Help, please!

[AngelinaCat]

Hi Kristie : I edited your post so that it might be a little better easier to read. Welcome to the forum, I am so sorry that your introduction had to come this way.

[kristierenee]

Thanks so much for editing it for me. I'm so frantic right now that things are a bit jumbled! lol

[AngelinaCat]

iI can't get him or his attorney to understand that this IS hurting me and IS hindering me. I'm terrified that he's going to do something underhanded and have my car taken from me.

His creditor meeting is Tuesday and I have NO idea what to do. Help, please!

Honey, your Dad's attorney works for HIM, not YOU. Please understand this now, and I am truly not being mean. That is the way life is.

And it sucks at time, I know. Been there and done that, as they say.

[AngelinaCat]

Now did you say you had/have an attorney?

so you AND your attorney need to appear at this Creditors Meeting (the 341, that is what they are called) to stand up and object.

[kristierenee]

I'm painfully aware that she does. However, she kept pulling out "he didn't even WANT to include your car" as if she's trying to personally mend a relationship that's broken...and THAT is SO far from my concern right now that I can't even address it.

[AngelinaCat]

I am feeling for you, I really do. You are going to need to get all of your loan papers and anything that your dad might have signed and have them ready.

Okay. Are you able to do that?

[kristierenee]

I am currently in the process of seeing if I can get them from either the dealership or the finance company. I don't have copies of them at present time...probably got shuffled when I moved 4 years ago. I'm tearing my house apart to find them though.

[AngelinaCat]

Okay, I am going to tell you that is time NOW, to leave the house alone and go to bed. You need to get a decent night's sleep.

This matter WILL work itself out. You do know that you have a friendly online family to give *HUGGS* now.

[Dst1]

I'm a little confused. You say that he is the primary borrower on the note but whose name is on the title? You don't mention this. In my experience if you are making payments on the car you would be the primary borrower and he would be the cosigner. It's rather unusual in the car business for someone to be the primary borrower and not have their name on the title. It certainly isn't normal to require him to be the primary borrower just to "get a better interest rate". I can't help but wonder if the reason the title would be sent to him is because it's his name on the title.

[kristierenee]

To be honest, I couldn't tell you WHO is listed on the title because I don't have it and the people at the acquisition company are useless when it comes to these questions.

I know all paperwork is listed as a JOINT debt...but other than that, I'm a bit confused.

Capital One has MY name and address for all paperwork (which I'm obviously not getting now thanks to his filing) and the statement comes in BOTH of our names every month.

[Dst1]

Yes, but the key issue here is not who is responsible for the debt but who actually owns the car. Typically they are the same thing but they don't have to be. In other words who legally owns the car and who is responsible for paying the debt on the car are two separate questions.

Certainly the fact that you have possession of the car, have the insurance, etc in your name is powerful evidence that you own the car. But if the finance company thinks he owns the car you may be in for a legal fight with them over ownership.

[lrprn]

Ok, let's see if I have this straight.

Your dad co-signed a car loan for you. I'm assuming that you have been making the car payments, right?

Your estranged dad filed bk recently and didn't want you to find out, so he gave his address as your mailing address. This way you wouldn't ever get what the court mails out to co-signers in this situation.

Your dad's lawyer doesn't want you to pay off the car as you planned because your dad needs what's left on the car loan to ensure he can pass the Means Test and file Ch 7. In fact, she would like you to redeem the car which helps your dad but (and you are correct) screws you. (Don't do it.)

A question for you - are you listed on the original car loan papers as a co-borrower and did you sign the original papers? That's going to be key. If your dad is the only financially responsible person listed on the loan, then although you've been paying for everything for years, in the eyes of the court he's the legal owner of the car. You have no legal claim to it.

Here's what could play out:

(1) If you are a signed co-borrower equally responsible for paying on the loan, then your dad keeps the loan as a part of his bankruptcy. When he's discharged, his responsibility to pay the loan is removed and you become the primary borrower. You pay off the loan in full and the title comes to you.

(2) However, if you are not a signed co-borrower, then when your dad's bankruptcy is discharged, if you want to keep the car, you'll have to continue to make the payments on time the way you do now or pay off the loan in full then. Once the car is paid in full, the title will go to your dad because he's the only financially responsible person listed on the loan. If he refuses to surrender the title to you, then depending on how much the car's current market value is at that time, you could take him to small claims court to force him to release it to you.

The key here is to do your best to keep your emotions and troubled history with your dad out of the decision-making around this unfortunate situation and logically, coldly figure out what gives *you* the best outcome in the long run.

Consider paying an experienced bk lawyer in your area for legal advice about your best long-term options and whether it makes sense to challenge your dad during his 341 meeting. (You'll have to travel to where he is and/or hire a lawyer there to do that.)

Regretfully you are getting a first-hand 'hard knocks' life lesson in why it is not a good idea to ask a parent, family member, or friend to co-sign or sign loans for assets that are yours. Hang in there and keep us posted about what you find out and decide to do. Good luck!

[kristierenee]

You are correct in assuming I've made EVERY payment. He hasn't so much as given me a dime towards one of them.

I did sign the papers on the loan at the time of purchase and I am a co-borrower on the loan according to the acquisition company and all documentation that I own. In fact, before he filed, when I was able to view my account information online, it showed him listed as primary borrower and me as a co-borrower. Obviously though, I can't access that now. Funny enough, his attorney won't even believe me that he's the primary borrower. He corrected her numerous times, the reaffirmation packet lists him as primary...but she INSISTS on only listing him as a cosigner.

I'm trying my best to keep my emotions out of this, but it's difficult with a past history of verbal and mental abuse on top of abandonment when I was a child. There's about a million other things that play into that too...but it's not important to the bankruptcy. It just makes it hard to deal with personally since I cut him out of my life over 3 years ago and this is forcing me to deal with him again.

I'm doing my best NOT to hire a lawyer because honestly, I don't really have the money to deal with the expense and I don't need him making ME file. The worst part about all of this is that since he went about this SO underhanded, I wouldn't have time to get there or send someone there for the 341 meeting because it's tomorrow. To say that I'm frustrated right now would be THE understatement of the year.

[OhioFiler]

I would petition the court and ask for time to object since he falsified his creditor list knowingly, if you believe you should attend.

How do you get license plates for the vehicle? Is the car registered in your name? Can you go to the title agency and ask for a duplicate title?

If that car is in his name and you pay it off AND he is in fact unable to exempt it you may lose it. DO NOT PAY OFF THE LOAN!

Unfortunately, you didn't cut him out of your life 3 years ago. So long as you have this debt with him and the issue of ownership of the vehicle, you are not out of his life.

If he does own the car legally, I would hope that once his bankruptcy is complete he would willingly transfer the title to you.

I would also tell his attorney to kiss my azz. You have every right in the world to represent yourself in this matter and her dismissal of you is unethical.

I would continue paying the monthly payment each month until after he is discharged then enter into negotiations with him directly on transferring ownership to you. Your last resort would be small claims court as lrprn suggests.