Means test

[ColoradoBell]

I noticed on the means test that if you don't have any consumer debt then you don't have to fill it out.

I'm really new at this, so I want to be sure, but have no credit card, or medical debt only debt from a divorce that comes due if/when my house sells.

So does that mean I don't have to pass the means test at all and can still qualify?

[newbie2]

When they mean "no consumer debt" they mean business debt.

[forgotten]

It is actually non-consumer debt. As newbie2 said, it means business related debt. Your medical debt is still considered consumer debt, "debt incurred by an individual primarily for a personal, family or household purpose".

[flyinbroke]

The means test only tells if you qualify for a chapter 7 or have to go into the payback mode of a 13. You need to owe a hellacious amount to not qualify for BK at all.

[forgotten]

You need to owe a hellacious amount to not qualify for BK at all.

I was about $10k away from being over the CH13 debt limit.

[flyinbroke]

I was about $10k away from being over the CH13 debt limit.

Then you owe a hellacious amount. ;-) But at least you are on your way out of the hole...

[ryan]

So, just out of curiosity, what is the Ch 13 debt limit?

[forgotten]

So, just out of curiosity, what is the Ch 13 debt limit?

Unsecured: $336900, Secured: $1,010,650.00
Increases slightly this April 1st.

I was at $325k unsecured and $570k secured.

[BCA2009]

So what happens if you have too much unsecured to file Chap 13, but you can't pass the means test for Chap 7? Are you just SOL and have to try to settle with creditors on your own? Seems weird to have a maximum. Seems like the more debt you have the more you need the ability to file.

Our governement at work!

[forgotten]

So what happens if you have too much unsecured to file Chap 13, but you can't pass the means test for Chap 7? Are you just SOL and have to try to settle with creditors on your own? Seems weird to have a maximum. Seems like the more debt you have the more you need the ability to file.

Our governement at work!

Your only option is a Chapter 11, which is unaffordable for most consumers, as legal fees can run tens of thousands of dollars.

You can quit your job for 6 months so you can file Chapter 7 and just wipe it all out... They just don't want you paying any of it back!

[ColoradoBell]

Another means test question:
If I have an investment property that I am paying $3000 a month for, am I allowed to count that as a deduction from income on the means test? I am current to date on this payment, and supposed to pay off the balance when my house (which is my only asset) sells. Unfortunately, I won't be able to pay it off IF the house sells for the offer that my X wants to take on it (far below appraised value...which is why I'm contemplating Ch. 7 in the first place)

[HHM]

You should probably get an attorney, if you are looking to discharge debt from a divorce and have an investment property with a high payment, there are too many land mines for the pro se debtor.

[ColoradoBell]

Thanks, HHH....I wonder if you are from Colorado too?
I intend on getting an attonrey as I'm sure my X will make trouble.
The 'divorce debt' isn't really part of the perm orders but was tacked on afterward. My defense of discharging it will be that X is a doc married to a doc with two homes and each making $450k a year while I will get $475 a month SS once spousal support stops in July.

I've found many attorneys just don't have a lot of clear answers. A couple didn't even know that after age 60, you get a $90k homestead exemption in Colorado...makes me wonder how they can charge such high fees if they don't even have a handle on THAT! But you are right, I will need an attonrey, not so much to fill in the forms but to litigate once X starts his stuff.

Even if the debts to him aren't discharged, after my house sells I won't have any assets he can take anyway.

I'm also filing to get the case out of divorce court, where the judge just gives X whatever he wants . (money talks up here in the high country.)
X won't let me buy out his share of the house and wants it sold to his friend for pennies on the dollar. Can't win in divorce court, but hoping the trustee wants to get as much from the house sale as possible to pay of all the unsecured debt.

I've already asked this elsewhere but so far no answers: if alimony is exempt from garnishment, can the trustee complain about how you are spending it? And does it count in the means test?

[HHM]

Alimony counts in the means test. The only, and I mean the ONLY type of income you can back out from the means test is Social Security, otherwise, it ALL counts.

[ColoradoBell]

Thanks HHH...I think I'm brain dead. I already counted it in the means test and came up ok just using the IRS allowables and only adding a little extra for utilities up here on a 6800 sqft home in winter! Didn't understand the 60 month future secured debt payments as mine are 'due on sale' so I just left that one blank and still passed. Surprised me cuz my current spousal support is high.

What I meant to ask is, since alimony is exempt from creditors, if I have any stockpiled in the bank account that holds only alimony, can the trustee take it?
The reason I'd rather save than spend it is that it runs out in July and I'm trying to save as much as I can which is opposite the normal bk endeavors. (I'll add that my bk is a result of having my house sold for peanuts andd there not being enough left to pay my 'due on sale' debt. Otherwise I don't have any debt, nor do I have any other asset (except one stock that I'll lose).

Best!
CB