BMW has no interest in recovering vehicle

[justbroke]

This may actually be actionable. Not releasing the title, refusing to come and get the vehicle, and then saying "just pay us some money", could be a willful violation of the automatic stay. I think it was GMAC or FMC that was burned for this before, and so you should pursue this. Especially since you asked them to quiet the title or take the vehicle.

I would talk to an attorney who will take a stay violation on contingency. You actually have a solid case! I hope you kept all correspondence.

[Bell30656]

My attorney has informed me that in my state they can legally keep the title. His suggestion was that I make them an offer for the title. They are unable to collect the loan as it was discharged by the CH7 but the lien still applies to the vehicle.

Ford has told me that I can take the vehicle to an address on the other side of Atlanta (at my expense) where they will take possession of it but that they have no interest in picking it up.

When I told my attorney about this he was full of suggestions about how I could have it towed as abandoned, etc. There is something in Georgia called a bonded title, etc., etc. However, if they don't want the thing then I'm happy to keep driving it whenever I need it and keep the plates current.

Justbroke, my attorney says that unless they try and collect the loan it isn't a violation of the discharge. It is their vehicle technically and they can offer too sell it to me. Separate transaction not related to the loan that was discharged.

[justbroke]

Justbroke, my attorney says that unless they try and collect the loan it isn't a violation of the discharge. It is their vehicle technically and they can offer too sell it to me. Separate transaction not related to the loan that was discharged.

There is an 11th Circuit case specifically on point and I'll try to find it (again). It was specifically where the creditor refused to release the title, unless the person PAID the creditor. While the creditor didn't try to "collect" the loan, they nonetheless were enforcing a debt by refusing to come and get the property or surrendering the title.

It is true that just not giving you the title is one thing. The other is that they "conditioned" the release of the title with "paying" the underlying debt, after their refusal to repossess the collateral. That's akin to blackmail. There's is a subtle difference but it's distinguishable. There's a difference between not giving someone the title, and holding the title hostage, saying you'll neither come to repossess the vehicle nor release the title.

There is one strategy where if they refuse to release the lien (title) and wont' come and get the collateral, that your attorney re-open the case and file a Motion to Redeem. In the Redemption Motion you offer something stupid like $100. You serve this on negative notice (or judicial notice) and hope they don't respond. Then you just redeem it and have a court order forcing (compelling them) to quiet the title.

Here's the Case... In Re Pratt, Pratt v GMAC. This went all the way to the 1st Circuit Court of appeal. And although this was in Massachusetts, the ruling also talked about State non-bankruptcy law remedies, but found that GMAC's refusal to come get the car because it wasn't worth it, made their statement that they'll only release the lien if the debtor "paid in full", to be coercive.

While Pratt isn't controlling (precedence) in the 11th Circuit, it is certainly

Pratt v. GMAC, 462 F.3d 14 (1st Circuit 2007). Finding that 'Given the clarity of the present record as to both the "notice" and "general intent" elements, therefore, we conclude that the Pratts adduced sufficient evidence that GMAC's violation of the discharge injunction was "willful." '

Decision: http://www.meb.uscourts.gov/Judges/p...dv_04-2007.pdf

[Bell30656]

Using that case could force them to take action... that action being pick up the vehicle. Since in Georgia I don't need the title to drive it and keep it plated right now, I think I'll let this sleeping dog lie. Besides my lawyer likes to charge $$$ for filing anything.

Initially I wanted this big thing out of my driveway but it comes in handy sometimes. We take it for a ride every once in a while. It's not like I plan to sell it.

[Adventura]

I am planning to surrender my BMW as part of my Chap 7 that is on track to be filed in the next week or so. And after reading through this thread, I am wondering what is going to happen if/when the debt is discharged, but BMW won't (maybe) come get the car. I plan to not pay after the debt is discharged (fingers crossed it all goes according to plan) so they will not be getting any money, but they still may not come get the car OR relinquish the title. I will be left with essentially an expensive flowerpot that I do not own--but is still my responsibility according to the California DMV--sitting out on the street. If it is towed or whatever, I am still liable for costs/damages. This seems to me to be a ridiculous situation, since I am assuming that the DMW will not allow me to release liability just into space. Too bad, since I would love to drive back to the crooked BMW dealer from which I bought it and leave it there with the keys and the release of liability.

Obviously, I am a little confused by this whole thing. I mean, I will have the responsibility for the car--but not the ownership, so not really the car itself.

Unless of course, BMW does come and get it as they are supposed to in a surrender situation. After dealing with them for a few years, I am not holding my breath on that one.

[forgotten]

Adventura, I still have the vehicle but I got hit with a surprise I didn't think about. I owed $700 in property taxes for 2009 and will owe another $600 in property taxes on it for 2010.
It was very difficult to cough up the $700 in my Chapter 13, the 2009 property taxes which could have been included in my bankruptcy but I didn't think about it. Not every state has property tax on vehicles, so it obviously may not apply to you.

I'm leaving the car I own parking in the garage and driving the heck out of the BMW. I might as well put the miles on that car instead, since i'm already on the hook for the taxes.

Edit: I am however going to drive it to a dealer, take the plates off and return them to the DMV before Dec 31st so I wont owe for 2011 also.

[BKorbust]

Grrrr why did I not buy a BMW..