Different directions

[goneunder]

My wife is unintentionally derailing our plans for CH.7 and now I am worried that it may not be possible for many more months.

In a nutshell, My construction business has been dieing a slow death for the past two years, hanging on but falling behind. Her career is really starting to pick up speed. So my last big account has shut their doors hence killing any hope for me to survive any longer in the business so I have decided that I would include the equipment in the BK instead of reaffirming.

For the past 3-4 months we have been paying only the necessary bills, cars, lights, mortgage, food, etc. and the collection calls are getting up to 50+ a day now.

Our consults with Lawyers have been put off or changed by the wife due to work conflicts. And now I find out that she has booked several rooms in Las Vegas for her Son's (step to me) 21st B-day. So him and all his broke friends can party it up on our dime. No doubt this will cost close to $2K.

Is this going to be a HUGE red flag in CH7 BK? Cant pay our bills but can go to Las Vegas? How long do we have to wait for this to go unnoticed by the Trustee? I have a great job lined up just waiting for the position to open up but once that happens then we wont pass the means test, pretty short window to file. Very frustrated, just venting.

[Meatstick]

Holy Cow, if I were the trustee and something like this came across I would let the hammer fall. Sounds like somebody has their priorities seriously buggered up.

[frogger]

You and your wife need to get on the same page with the same mindset. Until that can happen, it's going to be one problem after another.

Spending 2k on a birthday party? She hasn't started accepting things yet.

Good luck.

[flyinbroke]

I think I would be seeking a divorce attorney, personally. She is not taking this seriously at all and neither will any trustee. Their POV: If you can afford a 2K trip to Vegas, you can afford to pay your bills. This is a bedsheet sized red flag...and they will call BS on it.

[goneunder]

It sounds bad but there is no need for a divorce, we are just heading in opposite directions. When I was pulling in good money she had just started her job making next to nothing, now the tables have turned and she is a bit tired of the suffering. I have dragged us both down trying to keep the business alive and I see where she wants to cut loose on something but just reeeeealy bad timing. We could try to file before this birthday thing (2 weeks) but I don't want to rush and make errors. I am under the gun because Bank of America is getting ugly with me about the credit line and want to end it as soon as possible.

[goneunder]

So I figured by reading other posts that I have to wait 6 months or more for this thing to be off bank statements. Seems each trustee is different in the request for bank statements. This is what I get for keeping our bank accounts separate.

[helpmeout]

And now I find out that she has booked several rooms in Las Vegas for her Son's (step to me) 21st B-day. So him and all his broke friends can party it up on our dime. No doubt this will cost close to $2K.

Is this going to be a HUGE red flag in CH7 BK? Cant pay our bills but can go to Las Vegas? How long do we have to wait for this to go unnoticed by the Trustee? I have a great job lined up just waiting for the position to open up but once that happens then we wont pass the means test, pretty short window to file. Very frustrated, just venting.

That would be one HUGE red flag. FYI, the Trustee will ask about gifts made to family members within the last year. A $2K gift, well, your stepson will probably have to pay that money to the Trustee.

[forgotten]

We could try to file before this birthday thing (2 weeks) but I don't want to rush and make errors.

Or... just throwing it out there... cancel the trip so you don't spend any more money on it and get what you can get back from the room deposits.

I'm sorry, but this is the thing that gives people that file bankruptcy a bad name: I don't have money to pay my bills... but I do have money for an expensive vacation to las vegas!

Then you also mention having to hurry up because after you get the job you have lined up you wouldn't pass the means test.

In my opinion under the Totality of Circumstances this is substantial abuse of the bankruptcy system. Not that my opinion matters.

[catleg]

That would be one HUGE red flag. FYI, the Trustee will ask about gifts made to family members within the last year. A $2K gift, well, your stepson will probably have to pay that money to the Trustee.

Help me out here, where do you see a gift? I just see non exempt cash being spent on a non essential purpose.

[helpmeout]

Help me out here, where do you see a gift? I just see non exempt cash being spent on a non essential purpose.

Basically, the gift is the room, the booze and everything else she is buying her son's birthday.

[catleg]

Basically, the gift is the room, the booze and everything else she is buying her son's birthday.

That's an expense, not a transfer of property.

Now granted, it would be much better to convert the cash into an exempt asset.

But having spent it, what exactly is the trustee going to do about it?

Assuming we're taking about cash expenditure (or debit card) not buying on credit.

Sure this is a little edgy, but so is AIG executives going on retreat to Shutters in Santa Monica, or [insert wall st firm here] going to Las Vegas for a business meeting while on Tarp. When you're a corp you manage to have a clear conscience about this stuff.

[flyinbroke]

True, Cat, but the trustees did not go after AIG for the spa trip to Shutters, or anyone else's business trip to expensive locales. Those rules only apply to Main Street Joe (who did not get bailouts) and booking expensive trips is considered an abuse of the system.

Seriously, if the kid is 21 he can get trashed any old place. Cancel the trip. Give him 50 bucks and cab fare and let him whoop it up in his hometown.

[catleg]

I agree with you on all of the above, still, if the "party" is the cost of wife's consent to the BK, well there you have it.

I'm curious what rule there is about "wastage" of assets prior to filing? I know it is not codified, it is clearly a "sniff test" kind of thing, no bright line.

I guess the only question is, whether having a $2k party would be consistent with your normal type of entertainment expenditures?

[goneunder]

Settle down guys! No CC are used to pay for it. After drilling her on exactly how much she is spending she has $600 in cash from Christmas returns and stuff and put about $200 on the debit card for room deposits. I expect another $200 or so in food purchases and stuff. Plus Grandma is picking up some of the tab. It is a very touchy subject here and we often have heated debates over this kid and his selfish behavior, and I fully agree she enables it. So I spoke with an Attorney who I really feel good about, and explained the whole Vegas thing to him and he said not good but dont worry as it will not be a big thing but will need to be explained, plus were not talking a $5k trip to Paris, and not on CC. I can not cancel this thing I have zero input on anything this kid does. We meet with the Attorney on Friday. I is hard for people to understand but the main reason for BK is the Business equipment, which has been stripped of all it's equity/value due to the recession and the finance co. says they will aggressively seek the full amount on the lease, so its more me than her and she has a vague idea how I make money so I cant blame her for her lack of involvement as I have kept our finances separate for a long time.

[flyinbroke]

Save the Paris trip for when you are done with all this. ;-) I will throw one helluva party when all of this is over.