SOMETIMES I wonder why bother . . .

[SURV69]

Last November I cashed my life insurance for $1000.

My attorney(his para-legal), had a hissy-fit, even though all the money went to pay rent, buy food and to pay his fee.

My tax return($370) . . . same hissy-fit, even though almost all of it went to pay-off his fee.

Now I sold a piece of equipment for $3000(the bankruptcy apparaiser appraised the value at $2600), and again a hissy-fit and a warning of impending doom at the hands of the bankruptcy court.

OF course $1300 of this money went to catch up on my vehicle and to stave off repossession(the repossession actually had to be stopped), buy new tires for $600(mine were bald), pay off a $350 heating bill, a $250 back-logged trash bill(with penalties and such), still to pay rent($200) and have money for food.

The economy here is devastating with 15% unemployment and my work(self-employed) way, way down. I hope things pick up a little by spring or I might be living out of my car.

AND still, this "para-legal" is acting like I'm going to wind up in jail or something because I sold some stuff to continue living.

I've concluded that the bulk of attorneys have no idea what the bankruptcy code is all about(I don't think they really care) or how the system works(unless they have first-hand experience with a particular issue) . . . but they sure know how to collect the fees.

I've been paid up since November and still no filing and no date yet for filing.

If this continues and work doesn't pick up, I'll have to sell some more equipment to make ends meet and I'm sure as *&^%)*&#%^ not going to let some attorney scare me into my car(for living), before I sell everything and anything I have available first.

It's bad enough that I'm living on the edge financially, without my attorney(or his para-legals), trying to push me over mentally too.

Sometimes I wonder why I didn't just liquidate everything save the $2000 attorney's fee and skip town.

[Faust]

If you haven't filed and can document your spending I don't see what the trouble is.

[frogger]

Sounds like you need to have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with your para-legal. Those hissy-fits need to be stopped a.s.a.p.

[AngelinaCat]

Sounds like you need to have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with your para-legal. Those hissy-fits need to be stopped a.s.a.p.

And/or you need to fire this attorney and/or firm and get your money back and go elsewhere. If you cannot do this, refer the attorney and paralegal to the State Bar. Those hissy-fits are counter-productive, and are NOT professional.

The legal profession is already known as a 'Shark Profession'. I should think that any serious practioners of the profession would not like the scum-bags you describe to further sully their already compromised reputations.

Good luck and welcome to the forum!

[AngelinaCatHub]

What you sold and spent the money on I cannot see any problem. You did not buy that 52' LCD HDTV, right? Well, let it go from here.

Tell those who you hired, that what has happened, did happen and you paid them to deal with it. Or, like Mrs. said, bail on them, but I suggest attempt to mend that first. See what they come up with, then file. You will not believe the relief and the first "GOOD NIGHTS SLEEP" you will get the day you get your docket number.

You will be fine and we will be watching your progress as you report. 'Hub

[SURV69]

The problem with attorneys who don't run bankruptcy conveyor belts, is they don't know how the bankruptcy judges and trustees react to things(they all have their own quirks), but, I think for the most part these types of attorneys are on "auto-pilot" and like to see everything go through with the least effort on their part.

The problem with attorneys who, while maybe more conscientious, perform less bankrupties, they don't always know what the judges and trustees allow and don't allow. They don't know the little quirks.

Since I went to a bankruptcy conveyor belt operation, I get the benefit of knowing(by first-hand knowledge) how the judges an trustees operate(I hope), but I don't benefit from a true practitioner who might spend more time undestanding the laws and purpose.

After all is said and done, I hope to get through this and I hope the spring upswing(if there is one this year), will carry me through the next winter.

Three poor springs and summers, along with three sucessfully more devastating winters, while eating beans and not making bills has left me, to date financially ruined.

The selling of these assets is not done lightly and is only made when the proceeds go directly to past-due living expenses.

I think a true practictioner would appreciate this, while the bankruptcy-shop attorney only sees another 1/2 hour spent in the 341 hearing.

As an aside, I wonder if a paid-up fee in mid-November, should realistically result in a February(or later) filing?

[LadyInTheRed]

Have you been able to talk to your attorney about these transactions? If not, call the paralegal and insist he/she has the attorney call you to discuss your matter. Ask the attorney if he sees any problems with your sale of assets and if so, why? Ask for a commitment as to when your petition will be filed.

It's not a paralegal's place to have a hissy fit. Actually, an attorney shouldn't have a hissey fit either. They should both treat with respect. If the paralegal isn't doing that, you should talk to the attorney about it. If you can't get access to your attorney or the attorney doesn't react to your complaint in a constructive manner and tell you your petition will be filed in the next two weeks (IMHO, 2.5 months is plenty of time), report him/her to your state bar association. Also, report the paralegal for unauthorized practice of law.

I tell you this as a paralegal (in an area other than BK) who knows the client is the boss, deserves respect and should always have access to the supervising attorney. True practitioners know this!

You WILL get through this. Remember, you ARE the boss!

[SURV69]

True practitioners . . .

I'm sure that my attorney is not a true practitioner. He operates a bankruptcy shop.

So much in bankruptcy is dotting i's and crossing t's, that I felt a bankruptcy shop might be better, in as much that the attorney in a bankruptcy shop knows the more personal things about how the local courts work.

I had talked to more personable attorneys(I work with a lot of attorneys) who were still working with Ohio's old exemption laws which are about 1/2(?) year old now and each of them didn't know that a mobile home(even on a rental pad) now met the criteria for a homestead( I live in a mobile home after a divorce in 2006).

That's what led to my going to a bankruptcy-shop. I figured if none of them knew the new laws, then, at the least, an attorney who does more bankruptcies, knows the unique processes our local court has.

BUT, I also knew these attorneys would probably not be the "true practitioners" of the practice of law.

In any case, I know I can sell assets to cover bills. In fact, I can sell assets for more than just covering bills, although I can't really benefit much more than paying bills, eating food or buying more needful items without risking an issue with creditors.

This is immaterial as I'm well below the threshold regarding what I'm using the moneys for, but I really get upset when my attorney's para-legals(like employees they often mimic the employer), make me feel like I'm going to have a problem when I sell an asset, even though 100% of the money went for allowable uses(like 3 month's past due service bills and 5 month's past due car payment . . . all documented).

I hadn't intimated that I have bad back problems, heart problems and memory problems that have occured since 2007(well I fractured my back in 1963 & 1970), that I have spent more time in hospitals in each of the past two years than throughout my previous entire life(thank God for VA), or that I've had about a 70% drop in spring summer work and an almost 90% drop in winter work in the past three years. This economy has wiped out my savings and devastated my business. Although I have hopes for this spring and summer(with less bills through BK), I fear an even worse financial winter to come.

This incideous economy has already caused 2 of my brothers to die indigent in the past 5 years(one 1-1/2 years ago) . . . each at the age I am now . . . each of different causes, and presently, at 59, I'm the oldest boy in my family(three have died before 60, one in a VA hospital), and my younger brother has blood-clot and leg problems(60% disability from VA).

I hate spilling myself out a little here, but this bankruptcy wasn't planned or wanted and is in no way a financial maneuver. I simply will not/cannot live my last years with this increasingly heavy gristmill around my neck . . . draining me, and I hope to be the first boy in my family(of 5 boys) to retire . . . and I hope I have a brother when I retire.

But none of this matters the least to bankruptcy attorneys. Chop-shop/BK mill attorneys care even less and bankruptcy trustees and judges don't care. They all see nothing but dollars and cents from each, thier own unique viewpoint.

BUT, I care, and it would be nice if the very operatives that help bankruptees correctly fill out papers(which is really what these "shops" do), at the least, tried to understand where their clients are really coming from.

Maybe then, they wouldn't think that every action a client makes is a deceitful, personally-bent attempt at screwing his/her(the attorney) hopes for a smooth-sailing process through the 341 hearing, or that every bankrupt person is using BK simply as a "business" manuever or money management plan.

sorry about the rave

[backtoschool]

The problem with attorneys who don't run bankruptcy conveyor belts, is they don't know how the bankruptcy judges and trustees react to things(they all have their own quirks), but, I think for the most part these types of attorneys are on "auto-pilot" and like to see everything go through with the least effort on their part.

The problem with attorneys who, while maybe more conscientious, perform less bankrupties, they don't always know what the judges and trustees allow and don't allow. They don't know the little quirks.

Since I went to a bankruptcy conveyor belt operation, I get the benefit of knowing(by first-hand knowledge) how the judges an trustees operate(I hope), but I don't benefit from a true practitioner who might spend more time undestanding the laws and purpose.

After all is said and done, I hope to get through this and I hope the spring upswing(if there is one this year), will carry me through the next winter.

Three poor springs and summers, along with three sucessfully more devastating winters, while eating beans and not making bills has left me, to date financially ruined.

The selling of these assets is not done lightly and is only made when the proceeds go directly to past-due living expenses.

I think a true practictioner would appreciate this, while the bankruptcy-shop attorney only sees another 1/2 hour spent in the 341 hearing.

As an aside, I wonder if a paid-up fee in mid-November, should realistically result in a February(or later) filing?

I do not see any problems in you selling your items to pay living expenses.

Paralegals are not attorneys and really should not even be giving advice as to bankruptcy. Paralegals are only legally allowed to fill out the forms, they are not licensed to give legal advice.

I did my bankruptcy through a "conveyor belt" type of law firm, and ended up having to do most of the research myself as well as handle my grilling by the trustee, while a substitute lawyer stood there and picked his nose and stammered.

But....

When it came right down to the end, (well not the total end, I am still not closed, although I am discharged....), My lawyer had advised me on how to put down several assets on my schedule in such a way that I avoided being a larger asset case than the $1,000 asset case I ended up being. Because my lawyer knew the trustee, she was able to fill out my petition in a way that minimized my costs. That is what a good conveyor-belt lawyer can do for you if you get the right one.

[facingfuture]

I filed 12/18/09 and had my 341 01/21/09. I went with a wonderful attorney who is not part of a bankruptcy mill or conveyor - but he seems competent and very understanding. I'm concerned a little now because I am on a mortgage for a house that my ex lives in (I was paid my equity from refinancing three years ago - 4 months before the divorce) - and our divorce decree indicates that the house is his and I have no further equity interest unless he defaults and I have to take over or we have to sell the house. This is not going to happen because he is completely current on payments and is ready to take on the loan by himself when I am discharged. At my 341 the trustee requested my divorce decree and I'm just worried that she won't understand that the house is his - and I don't expect or want anything to do with it going forward - but I have to be discharged so he can refinance and put the whole thing in his name alone. Does anyone have any words of wisdom on this? Like I said, my attorney is very, very nice - but he is honest in saying that he has no idea what the trustee is going to do about this issue. Maybe a bankruptcy mill attorney would have known?