where to find samples of chap 13

[maxwell18]

Where can I find samples of chap 13 filed out so I can see how it is done. Can you go on Pacer and lookup accounts? I have NOLO chap 13 and i is great but like to see some items on the form. Like where you list your actual mortage payment that is a problem for me trying to get my actual information on the in the correct places. Ect health care personal items and so forth. I know about the IRS allowance.. Thanks

[BobMango]

The best way is to check the docket for the bankruptcy court in your district, then look up those cases on PACER. That way you'll see what's current and how it's being done without blindly searching PACER and racking up a big bill.

[justbroke]

If you are not getting what you need from the NoLo Chapter 13 guide, then you have issues. The NoLo guide is pretty clear about where to put things on forms, but you also need to read and understand the forms themselves.

First, Chapter 4 and Chapter 5 deal with your Current Monthly Income calculation, whether you're over/under the median, and how to "Propose a Plan the
Judge Will Approve?"

Also, if you continue to read the entire guide, you'll find that there is also something called your Chapter 13 Plan of Reorganization (Chapter 8: Drafting Your Plan). This is something that you also need to complete.

I think you're stumbling a bit on the "easy" part of the Chapter 13 process. I'm concerned that you haven't even got to the hard part, which is Drafting a Chapter 13 Plan of Reorganization. I really hope that you read the entire book cover to cover and perform all the calculations and exercises in the NoLo Chapter 13 book.

If you have very specific questions, feel free to ask. However, your current questions like where "you list your actual mortage payment" because it goes in several places. If you haven't even entered it on your Schedule J and Form B22C, then it's no point talking about where it would go on your Chapter 13 Plan (or Model Plan, if required by your District).

For example, you ask about where to put healthcare costs, yet the Chapter 13 NoLo guide (at the bottom of page 35) reads "Line 19B. Enter the amount you are allowed to claim for health expenses"...

As indicated above, you can also look at other Chapter 13 filings in your District, but I think you have some basic issues. Looking at other Chapter 13 filings may actually mean that you miss things. I'm a pro se advocate, but Chapter 13s are intricate and the Chapter 13 Plan is a work of art (unless your District uses a Model Plan). I hope that you can get a nice clean first cut of your petition by using the NoLo Guide first... then comparing afterwards to see your problem areas.

[maxwell18]

Reply

Thanks, I have read NOLO back and forth I have BK for dummies and have asked questions on this site and have attained a atty and got a draft of the means test (not finished) by the atty. I guess it looks like I am pretty dumb and I am on this subject, but am seeking help on specific issues and cannot find the answers. You bring up the mortage subject can or do you list the diff in what they allow in line 21? What after figuring your means test and not figuring SS you come up with a negative figure is that deducted in the over figure after figuring back in on payments. I am $612.00 negative,times 60 =36,720.00 vs SS added $3246.00 times 60=$190,760.00. Now do you deduct 36,730.00 from 190.760.00? Reference to the type of questions I have asked about, I have looked on this site and any others I did not find the answers I felt answered my questions. I have asked about Pacer I signed up and got my ID and password but cannot figure how to just look at any docket cases (not mine) as I have not file yet just want to see actual cases. And one more last thing (for now) I am drawing mil retirement, VA disability 100% and SS and my wife is drawing SS and a annunity. We read and was told all this is protected from any suits or garnishments. Any ideas on that. Thanks very much.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Thanks, I have read NOLO back and forth I have BK for dummies and have asked questions on this site and have attained a atty and got a draft of the means test (not finished) by the atty. I guess it looks like I am pretty dumb and I am on this subject, but am seeking help on specific issues and cannot find the answers. You bring up the mortage subject can or do you list the diff in what they allow in line 21? What after figuring your means test and not figuring SS you come up with a negative figure is that deducted in the over figure after figuring back in on payments. I am $612.00 negative,times 60 =36,720.00 vs SS added $3246.00 times 60=$190,760.00. Now do you deduct 36,730.00 from 190.760.00? Reference to the type of questions I have asked about, I have looked on this site and any others I did not find the answers I felt answered my questions. I have asked about Pacer I signed up and got my ID and password but cannot figure how to just look at any docket cases (not mine) as I have not file yet just want to see actual cases. And one more last thing (for now) I am drawing mil retirement, VA disability 100% and SS and my wife is drawing SS and a annunity. We read and was told all this is protected from any suits or garnishments. Any ideas on that. Thanks very much.

Max, here is a simple way to get a working model. Go to PACER, pick your local district for local procedures, type in any last name such as Doe, then you will get pages of all people with that name as well as the docket number and the type of bk. The first two digits of your docket number is the year filed so pick this or last year and 13. Click and go there. Don't go to the History but the docket report. It is the History but a little more descriptive. Locate that persons paperwork and download. See how they did it. Remember .08 cents a page.

Try a couple in comparison. The "gold standard" however, is to have your lawyer go through your preliminary paperwork with you. It is his job to do that. We filled out our C7 paper three times, under the lawyer's direction. 'Hub

[maxwell18]

reply

Thank you very much for the pacer help....

[justbroke]

Thanks, I have read NOLO back and forth I have BK for dummies and have asked questions on this site and have attained a atty and got a draft of the means test (not finished) by the atty. I guess it looks like I am pretty dumb and I am on this subject, but am seeking help on specific issues and cannot find the answers.

I'm sorry that you're having troubles.

You bring up the mortage subject can or do you list the diff in what they allow in line 21?

I hope you're talking about Form B22A. No, you don't put anything on line 21. You skip that line like the plague as anything put on that line will be questioned. You get your entire mortgage amount on Line B42!

What after figuring your means test and not figuring SS you come up with a negative figure is that deducted in the over figure after figuring back in on payments.

You want your disposable monthly income to be as close to $0.00/month or below. So negative is good!

I am $612.00 negative,times 60 =36,720.00 vs SS added $3246.00 times 60=$190,760.00. Now do you deduct 36,730.00 from 190.760.00?

I don't understand what you're trying to do.

Reference to the type of questions I have asked about, I have looked on this site and any others I did not find the answers I felt answered my questions. I have asked about Pacer I signed up and got my ID and password but cannot figure how to just look at any docket cases (not mine) as I have not file yet just want to see actual cases.

Be very careful with running PACER queries. It can cost you a lot of money.

And one more last thing (for now) I am drawing mil retirement, VA disability 100% and SS and my wife is drawing SS and a annunity. We read and was told all this is protected from any suits or garnishments. Any ideas on that. Thanks very much.

They are protected but it is income. However, Social Security is not counted in what they call the "current monthly income" calculation. I'm guessing that you'll probably be under the means anyhow.

Since you have special categories of income, I would probably seek an attorney to file, in your case. Some Districts treat SS and Disability strangely.

[tigergem]

I thought about and then opted not to look at examples of other cases on Pacer. Every situation is unique. You don't necessarily know, unless it was discharged, whether a particular current filing is a favorable example or not.... Why rely on what might be somebody else's mistakes? Really, if you don't over think it, this process is not that difficult. The Plan itself is a bit complicated and you have to remember to include your trustee's percentage fee in the repayment plan. Which might mean making a phone call to find out what that percentage should be.

[maxwell18]

reply

The only thing I am trying to do is figure the payment and see if we can make it for five years. I know what some people say they (government has it figured out so you can live on it) I don't belive that. That's what wrong with all the crazy stuff going on now. I ask questions on this site for help.

[HHM]

There really is no mystery here in figuring out your payment. Gross income - deductions - living expenses. That's it. Just start with what you actually spend. Also, you look at it from a "monthly" perspective, don't worry about multiplying by 60.
If you have $5,000 a month coming in, and after deductions and living expenses, you only have $450 per month, that is presumptively your chapter 13 payment. Of course, the devil is in the details, but if all your looking for is a starting point, that is all you need to do. Also, for bankruptcy, ALL sources of income count, regardless of exempt status. We can certainly help you with questions about specific expenses (i.e. RV payment, not allowed; 401K loan repayment, allowed...etc).

Realize, to do chapter 13, you have to show some positive number. If you are actually negative each month, your chapter 13 will be objected too and dismissed.

[maxwell18]

reply

Thanks for your reply. I explained I am negative without the SS which is not used with the income until you add it back for income then my numbers back to positive. I was asking about the negative number being deducted from the overall income after the SS is added.

[HHM]

You are WAY over thinking this.

Just add up ALL INCOME, regardless of source, subtract ALL your expenses, that is your payment.

If you are still confused after that explanation, I can't help you

[maxwell18]

ok

[HHM]

Sorry if I made you feel out there, but it sounds like there is a more fundamental confusion going on so I tried to make it as simple as possible. If you are trying to do the forms yourself, don't. Go get an attorney, no one should do a chapter 13 pro se (that is, without an attorney). My guess is, you are getting stalled on form B-22 because that is where exempt vs non-exempt income can come into play, but really, form B-22 has almost nothing to do with determining your chapter 13 payment. Generally, your chapter 13 payment will be based off of schedules I and J, which simply add up all income, from all sources, deduct out expenses, and what ever is left over, is your chapter 13 payment (again, devil in the details, but fundamentally, that is how you do it).

Incidentally, if you really are negative on B-22, why do you want to file chapter 13, are you trying to save your house or something?

[tigergem]

HHM you are scaring me! Big time! I did file my Chapter 13 pro se.