Ch 7 or 13 IF you had a choice?

[PacificBlue]

Totally confused!

We have one of those situations that could go either way. (We will know for sure next week) But... IF the 13 plan is as livable in the rough draft as far as payments go as we hope it will be for the final cut, would we be better off just sticking with the 13?

Ch 7's appear to be under a larger microscope. (though we have nothing to hide). And it also looks like in a 13, you can keep more of your "goodies". (but you have to pay for them). That keeps you from starting ALL OVER again to replace things. At our age and health, it just wouldn't happen.

Before seeing the lawyer we seen yesterday, I thought 13's were the end of the world for us.

I am totally confused at this point, but (and I maybe wrong) it looks like Ch 13's are better in a way then 7's IF.. IF the payment plan is livable. (I will duck under the table now, in case some one starts throwing large rocks at me for making that statement).

[momisery]

We went with the 7. Because hubby has been laid off for a long time now and we are both closing in on 60. I can not pay off a house and our medical and CC debit (lots of needed dental on our CC). If I knew he would get a job, and I knew I would not lose mine I would consider a 13 if it was not so costly and didn't take so much time in court. Being broke is not a good feeling without feeling like your being watched like a two year old, and spending funds you don't have on court visits. The 7 decision was hard for me, I have never not paid a bill or ever been late... it was not just hard it was a huge BLOW to my ego and my years of work. Ever feel like you worked all your life for nothing but a stupid group of people on Wall Street and the Banks who turned the nation lose with stupid credit ideas? But, I now have gotten over blaming my self, and gotten on to blaming the times. lol

[PacificBlue]

We blame ourselves for dollar amounts we have on our credit cards. It was just to tempting not to use them. We did see an end coming to those tempting times, so we stopped using them for anything months ago.

Where I do lay blame on the credit card companies is when they chose to lower our limits, and raise the interest rates so high it would have taken 50 years to pay them off. We are 50 yrs young and their idea of leaving us with zero for retirement and much needed medical care, didn't fit into our plans at all.

I feel bad about it as you said. Looking back on your life and everything you have built up, put away or planned for is almost gone. The relief of doing this though there is hope at the end of the day.

I have read so much about this over the past month I feel like I'm ready for a the bar exam, or the local bar..

[forgotten]

My attorney was going to try a creative argument to get me in to a 7, however, I declined for the "microscope" reason as you put it.

If I didn't have large amounts of potentially questionable debt I would however have tried for the 7 in a heartbeat.

My case has been going on for 6 months now and I still have not even been confirmed, I don't feel like I can even start to breath free until I see a confirmation. I have a relative who filed a chatper 7 two months after me and is already discharged!

[nickifan]

Where I do lay blame on the credit card companies is when they chose to lower our limits, and raise the interest rates so high it would have taken 50 years to pay them off. of the day.

I have read so much about this over the past month I feel like I'm ready for a the bar exam, or the local bar..

EXACTLY. I want to call them up and say, "If you think I'm having trouble at 9.80%, how do you think it will be easier at 23.99%"????????????????

I had three cards slash my limits and raise my rates...so for those cards I'm essentially maxed out, which certainly doesn't help my credit score. I was ONE day late on one card that I've never been late on, and got dinged a $25 late fee. (Called up and argued politely on that one and got it reversed. It was just for the priniciple of the thing; of course I will list that card for discharge anyway!)

And I feel as you do about all this research...my head reels. And at my first attorney consult _I_ am the one who brought up the problem about my not living in this state for two years, so I would be governed by the prop exemption rules in my former state! But I know just enough to get in trouble (hence my posts here asking questions)....

In your situation though, I'd say head for the bar!

[munchkn813]

I don't mean to thread jack but I have a ocuple questions aobut things mentioned here.
I am just starting out on the process...stopped paying credit cards that were due over the weekend and found a lawyer today - set up our free consultation for next Tues 22nd. I am very nervous but excited! Trying to get myself as prepared as possible form this board!

What kinds of debt are questionable?
And as far as the "microscope" what kinds of things are they looking at that would keep you from getting ch 7 bk?

We are hoping for ch. 7 but I am nervous about it all. We have about as much debt as our yearly income is...just under. Min. montly payments and paying just $25/month on several different medical bills takes up about half of our month of pay (not including house/car/utilities)

[AngelinaCat]

We, 'Hub and I, were trying for a Ch13 as we truly wanted to repay something, even if a little bit, to our creditors. At the time our jobs would support it. Then came a lawsuit from hell and some medical problems--prostate cancer and two accidents. Then the lawsuit from hell caused the loss of our jobs. So we had no choice but the Ch7.

In retrospect, we actually are pleased that it happened that way. Though it took a long time to discharge and even longer to close, we are finished.

We are still recovering though. We are still learning to budget within our now limited income and ever rising prices for utilities and such, just like everyone else.

Good luck to you!

[PacificBlue]

What kinds of debt are questionable?
And as far as the "microscope" what kinds of things are they looking at that would keep you from getting ch 7 bk?

We are hoping for ch. 7 but I am nervous about it all. We have about as much debt as our yearly income is...just under. Min. montly payments and paying just $25/month on several different medical bills takes up about half of our month of pay (not including house/car/utilities)

We are still trying to figure it all out, but the advise we have got on this board has been worth it's weight in umm... well.. there has been some great advise. Since I'm not 100% sure of anything yet how it all works, what they look for and so on. BUT... PLEASE.... PLEASE... PLEASE... talk to more then one, two three, four lawyers. We talked with a total of 11.

It was number 10 we thought we were going to go with as he truly seemed to want to fight for us... Then tonight we had our free visit with number 11. Long story short.. we are actually going with number 11. SO YOU Must.. must, must talk with more then one lawyer. Even if your 100% sure you found the right one.. see one more. We did and trust me we almost made a huge mistake thinking number 10 was the one.

[PacificBlue]

Then came a lawsuit from hell and some medical problems--prostate cancer and two accidents. Good luck to you!

I had the robotic surgery for PCa (Prostate cancer advanced) Aug of 2007 Gleason score was a 9. External beam radiation for 8 and half weeks, 9 months of blockade therapy. (lupron shots) and was cancer free for 14 months.

Since my cancer had advanced (was out of the prostate) I had a 60% chance of it coming back so I was being tested every 3 months. (short leash) July 2009 it back. PSA was 0.03 in July, then 0.7 in Aug, then 1.24 in Sept. It was coming on fast.

Bone scan, CT and colonoscopies scans every 3 and 6 months now. Started on blockade therapy again (Lupron and casdex). I hope you are cancer free, and outlive the awfulness. Life has changed so much for me (and those of us with this cancer) but it is still life and we have to enjoy what we can.

[JKPDX]

When I scheduled my first meeting with my attorney, I had full intentions of going 13. I figured, I charged it, so I should pay it back. Then my lawyer said that 7 would be better. One swoop and you are done. 13 is a 5-year commitment. I felt guilty for a minute. OK, maybe two. Then I remembered my tripling interest rates ("the cost of doing business" according to Citibank). Well, credit card companies, you brought it on yourself. 57 days to go! Woo Hoo!

[LALADY]

Hope and change, and change and hope!

I, too, had every intention of filing a Chapter 13. I.ve always pay my bills. My attorney strongly suggested I file Chapter 7. I thought long and hard about it. I thought...I've always paid my taxes, which includes paying for childrens' schooling for children I don't have, illegals' hospitalization, blah blah blah. Obama, hope and change, change and hope, then screw the credit card industry. So, the credit card industry turns around and screws with me. One company I had 4 cards with breached our loan agreement, good faith and fair dealing by raising my minimum monthly payment from 2% to 5% (3.99% fixed for life at 2% MMP) causing a default on one of the four cards despite my begging and pleading with them to leave well enough alone. I was doing just fine with what our loan agreement "was." But no, they wouldn't hear of it. So, default on payment on number one due to increase in MMP caused other 3 cards with them plus all other cards with other companies to go into default interest rates of 25-35% versus the 2.99-3.99 fixed for life. So, I had no choice but to stop payment on all cards. I became insolvent. I don't blame myself. I did my part for 30 years, excellent payment histories and scores. I paid my taxes. I bailed out the banks. I didn't call Obama every name in the book when he messed with private industry. I begged and pleaded to pay my bills as I had always paid them per our loan agreement. And for what. Am I happy to be skipping out on my bills. No. Did I want to do Chapter 13 if I could. Yes. Am I glad my attorney talked me out of it. You bet. If I have to convert to Chapter 13 from Chapter 7 because the trustee believes I have DMI, I'll do what I always did. Pay all my bills on time, but through the trustee. Do I blame the creditors. No. Do I blame Obama. You bet. Hope and change, and change and hope.

[PacificBlue]

It's amazing how 11 different attorneys have different point's of view on this subject. You would think that there are several different plans for a ch 13. One lawyer will say you can add this, and do that, others say you can't add that or do this. One will come up with a figure of $300 a month, and another with $480, yet another at $525.

It was almost like we gave each one different figures on our paper work. We didn't, we printed it out from one source and made copies. The little red flags started going up with us over how they could be so different. I need answers, I am a need to know person and well... I need to know why.

To wrap my brain around this whole thing this is what I came up with.

Your walking down a street full of sidewalk vendors selling the same product. (oranges) One has a family of 3 to support, the next a family of 5. Down a little ways the next vendor has a fancy cart to pay off, across from him that vendor has an expensive house to pay off.

Now, one Vendor knows not to place his cart in the direct sunlight, it could over ripen his oranges before he could sell them. The next vendor thinks it's better to have his oranges in the sun so they ripen fast. Yet another vendor thinks it's better to put his on ice. And another doesn't care, he just wants to sell his oranges. What's happening is each vendor has a different science on how to present his oranges and how much he needs to make per orange.

What vendor is in the wrong? None of them are. Some know what's best for the orange, some know what's best for the person buying it, and some just want to sell oranges. It's up to the person buying that orange to decide what's the better choice for them.

We spoke with lawyer #11 last night and he offered an option for us that no one else had. (of course I had to come home and research it and I still am, but it looks good so far). We do have a unique situation though, and in our situation... we don't want any oranges today.