Ever notice?

[whyme]

Do you ever notice that we (most of us, anyway) middle incomers get screwed in every possible way? We pay a large portion of our income in taxes ,it's VERY hard for us to file BK and come out ok, most of us are responsible for our own lives and don't depend on the govt. to bail us out like large corporations and people who purposely abuse the system. The rich don't pay taxes like we do and neither do the poor. The rich have ways of hiding their assets and income in a bankruptcy and the poor's income is exempt. So, they stick it to the middle man and woman. Just like with everything else. We're the backbone of this country and they're breaking us in every possible way. It really pisses me off.

[Faust]

+1 on that.

[momisery]

Probably +a few million on that one..

[justbroke]

I do feel the same way as a middle class income earner, but I've danced on the line of the top 2% for several years (2004-2007).

The rich don't pay taxes like we do and neither do the poor.

You're right... the rich pay more.

The rich have ways of hiding their assets and income in a bankruptcy and the poor's income is exempt.

How do rich people hide their assets and income in bankruptcy? (I want to know because I may need to re-file some day!)

So, they stick it to the middle man and woman. Just like with everything else. We're the backbone of this country and they're breaking us in every possible way. It really pisses me off.

Now, I wholeheartedly agree that the middle is always squeezed. A lot of pressure is put on the middle class and for a long time, I was a single, unmarried with no children, taxpayer. I resented my tax bracket and my payments for things I didn't even use (public services).

Not defending our tax system, but the tax rates are based on earned income. Most rich people don't make the majority of their income from working (earning it). They receive capital gains on investments, and that's taxed at a different rate. This is why a working "rich" person, as I was a > $250K/year earning at one point, pay a lot more even percentage wise, in taxes than a middle class earner. However, the "rich" person who makes all their income from gains on investments, is in a totally different bracket.

I would welcome a flat tax system anyday! Just 20% for everyone. (Or at least a consumption based tax model.)

(I make these statements because the slant makes people believe that the rich pay nothing, when the top 1% pay more than 30% of all individual taxes. )

[whyme]

I do feel the same way as a middle class income earner, but I've danced on the line of the top 2% for several years (2004-2007).

You're right... the rich pay more.

How do rich people hide their assets and income in bankruptcy? (I want to know because I may need to re-file some day!)

Now, I wholeheartedly agree that the middle is always squeezed. A lot of pressure is put on the middle class and for a long time, I was a single, unmarried with no children, taxpayer. I resented my tax bracket and my payments for things I didn't even use (public services).

Not defending our tax system, but the tax rates are based on earned income. Most rich people don't make the majority of their income from working (earning it). They receive capital gains on investments, and that's taxed at a different rate. This is why a working "rich" person, as I was a > $250K/year earning at one point, pay a lot more even percentage wise, in taxes than a middle class earner. However, the "rich" person who makes all their income from gains on investments, is in a totally different bracket.

I would welcome a flat tax system anyday! Just 20% for everyone. (Or at least a consumption based tax model.)

(I make these statements because the slant makes people believe that the rich pay nothing, when the top 1% pay more than 30% of all individual taxes. )

You're right, the rich do pay more taxes but who actually feels the pain of paying taxes? (Keep in mind that when I'm speaking of the rich, I'm speaking of seriously high income earners.) That would be the middle class. Not the poor, who basically pay NO taxes, and not the rich. Do you think if Cap and Trade passed it would put the squeeze on the wealthy to pay that extra 3k per year for energy costs? It would put the squeeze on the middle income earners. The poor have their energy costs subsidized by the govt. Do you think the rising costs of food puts the squeeze on the rich? Nah. That extra 500 dollars a month is not going to make or break them. The poor don't buy their own food so it doesn't affect them. Are you getting my point?

Not to get into politics here, but it seems to me like our govt. is trying to do away with the middle class by making "getting by" harder and harder. Possibly trying to make us a 2 class society, of the rich and poor and we all know what that's called.

As for the rich hiding their assets...I got that information from this forum. http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=12810 Seems pretty accurate to me.

[MC9199]

As an employed professional I pay about $1200 a month in taxes...Federal + Medicare + SS + State...that's $1200 per month not going to bills, mortgage, savings.

[frogger]

I would welcome a flat tax system anyday! Just 20% for everyone. (Or at least a consumption based tax model.)

I'm all for a consumption tax. That would encourage savings and long run would be the greatest thing that could happen to our economy.

[justbroke]

Just so everyone understands my position... it's our tax system, not the rich that enjoy that same system, that is the problem. Our system is based primarily on "income" taxes based on "earned income". Unless and until we go to a modified tax system like a flat tax or consumption tax, the people who don't "earn" income in the traditional manner (the rich), will continue to be rich.

I am 100% against wealth redistribution as well.

I am also about 99% against cap and trade. I think it would hurt the middle class the most as many lower income earners get energy subsidies. (I have a friend who pays $21 a month for heat, hot water and electricity in a 2-bedroom apartment in a trendy city in the Northeast. Reason? The entire apartment complex is subsidized by HUD. In the meantime, I pay $800 a month for the same services at my 5-bedroom home in Florida.) I feel the pain!

This Government, and the way it's structured, can not get rid of the middle class. They'd have no one to tax. We would be back to the 1920's when the Vanderbilts, Astor's and Rockefeller's ran the place. Those people were crooks.

Let me leave you with this nugget. Do you know why a lot of the operating budget of the Federal Government comes from earned income? Because it's a way for the Government to divert your money from you, before it ever reaches your hands! If they had an "honor" system where you paid at the end of the year... revenue collections would be down at least 70%!!! This is why the middle class feels it more because the majority of their income is earned.

The rich would always avoid (annual) taxation, or delay it, by taking long-term Treasuries (inflation protected) to avoid taxation every year. This is just the way it works folks. So, who really funds the Government? I would say the Rich pay a lot more (by buying Treasuries and actually paying a good portion of the total operating budget), but they do get healthy returns on those TIPS (Treasury Inflation Protected Securities) when they mature in 10 years or so.

I don't know why they don't teach this stuff in high school. Everyone should know how it "really" works.

Another tip for the day. In 2008, the Federal Budget was $2.9 trillion dollars. Of that, $1.5 trillion was social programs (Social Security ($608Bn), Medicare ($386Bn), Medicaid ($209Bn), and Other Welfare Programs ($324Bn)). We just can't afford this with the eroding (earned income) tax base we have.

At least those are my thoughts.