What is the I & J test?

[sbush]

**Ok, I mean schedule I & J**

Someone in my previous post mentioned it was the test AFTER filing. What's the importance of that?

I'm confused because the one attorney we met with said the means test was useless. Bottom line was you had to have more debt than income. I've taken it that that advice was wrong. We are below the median income, so we're eligible for Chapter 7, right?

Then, he took away the car payment we want claim and all the credit card monthly payments. He was then seeing how much money we had left over. He was way over estimating, like saying we spend $800 a month on diapers, shampoo, toilet paper etc. No way! So, it still looked like we didn't have a lot of money even after we eliminate those debts. What does this mean? He said since we would have more than $100, but not much, after losing the credit cards and car loan, we may not be eligible. I just don't think that's right...

[aaj67]

I'm also confused about the importance of I & J schedules , for example, we are not supposed to include social security benefits /income in the mean test B22C, however, it is included in the "I" schedule which would result in a higher disposable income than form B22C. Which disposable income figure does the court go by in Chapter 13? B22C or Schedule I & J?

[MSbklawyer]

A person can pass the means test, but still have a lot of money left over at the end of the month after expenses. Their expenses may be very low -- for instance, they may have a house and car that is paid for. Some trustees file "abuse" motions if Schedules I (Income) & J (Expenses) show that there is money left over after living expenses are met and some judges go along. Other courts apply the means test "mechanically", that is, if you qualify for chapter 7 by virtue of the means test, then it doesn't matter how much you have left over on I & J. Different courts come to different conlcusions on the question, and we just don't have an answer until we get some appellate court decisions.

Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.abiworld.org/committees/newsletters/consumer/vol4num5/DisposableIncome.pdf

[jdcat]

MSbklawyer I just read the link you shared and discovered that I had something mixed up. Is it correct that someone filing out schedule J cannot claim the IRS allowable amounts, only actual expenses? I had been thinking that those amounts were allowed on the Schedule J for a chapter 7 the same way they are allowed on the B22C. I have been wrong, correct?

[klandsb]

Totally Unfair

MSbklawyer.... Read the article and agree 100% because that is exactly what happaned in my case. 2 different amounts due to 2 different calculations. And of course the trustee is making me pay the higher amount ... Just my luck
Am I correct that the I & J has no place for 401k loans or contributions but the means test does ????
Can we please turn back time for my bk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aaj67]

A person can pass the means test, but still have a lot of money left over at the end of the month after expenses. Their expenses may be very low -- for instance, they may have a house and car that is paid for. Some trustees file "abuse" motions if Schedules I (Income) & J (Expenses) show that there is money left over after living expenses are met and some judges go along. Other courts apply the means test "mechanically", that is, if you qualify for chapter 7 by virtue of the means test, then it doesn't matter how much you have left over on I & J. Different courts come to different conlcusions on the question, and we just don't have an answer until we get some appellate court decisions.

Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.abiworld.org/committees/n...ableIncome.pdf

Thanks for the link..it really depends on the trustee and the judge!