At this point, I know we qualify for Chap 7, and it's been a LONG time coming. I just completed a regular personal Finance class at a community college and I learned a lot... so much more than I suppose I would with the counseling stuff they require now.
Anyway, here's a quick overview... as quick as I can. No it is going to be LOOOONG, and I'm so sorry about this. I just don't know where else to turn at the moment.
Husband has massive medical bills from 1999, an accident that involved several surgeries, one of which was botched so badly we needed to sue for malpractice.
We received $50K from the insurance company from the accident, but it wasn't nearly enough to cover the medical bills.
Tried for 2 years to find someone to take the malpractice case... was hard because the surgeon is well known and is often an expert witness. Nobody wanted to be a party to suing him, even though we were told by multiple attorneys that our case was clear cut.
Finally found an attorney who would take it right before the SOL expired, but we could not afford his retainer. We gave up. At that point, a local collection agency had filed two different suits for a total of $20K, mostly medical bills. The CA was vicious and they sent people to our house demanding we pay because they knew we got $50K and that we were hiding it somewhere. Hah. I don't know how $85K in medical bills can be paid with $50K... but if you all can figure it out, let me know! (And yeah... these amounts are AFTER his cruddy medical insurance paid)
During our time to respond, I stupidly picked the first BK atty I found who told me not to worry about the lawsuits, that it would be taken care of with the stay. Great... because of assets and circumstances at the time, we had to file a Ch13, and we were okay with that. The plan was to convert it to a 7 after 2 years when we knew our situation would be changing. we filed in the Fall of 2001. Everything seemed fine... except that on TWO different occasions, we were awaken at 6am by the local Sheriffs who had orders to seize our property because of default judgments won by the CA!!!
We KNEW that the CA was aware of the filing, and our attorney said she took care of it. Nope. It wasn't a problem, we simply showed the filing to the officers each time and they were on their way.
At that point our atty again said she'd get the judgments vacated because they were illegal, and we figured that's what she did. We had no idea... we were just making our regular payments to the trustee and everything seemed fine... until a year later when we had to move and my husband got a nasty surprise from the people doing his background check. They wanted to know about the judgments on his credit report. Ugh. They knew about BK... and of course, could do nothing about it. We had to show them the BK filing dates... and that was that. He was hired and we again thought all was well, but I called the atty and said this needed to be fixed, because it is still listed as an active judgment! She said it must have been a court error... and she'd take care of it. Okay, I was really dumb and trusting back then... I can't believe I fell for it.
Well, less than 6 months later I hadn't found a job yet after our move and my husband was laid off/fired because his health was beginning to deteriorate and he was having trouble keeping up physically at work. We start to get behind with trustee payments and were in trouble. We could not convert to the 7 for another 6-9 months so we called the atty and asked if we could petition for an amendment to the plan. She prepared the petition and we waited...
A month later, we get a phone call from the atty. She's in the car heading to court because of our DISMISSAL HEARING! (We're in another state at this point) We had no idea there was a hearing, and she never bothered to tell us either. Yeah... I figured out the crappy lawyer vibe by that point.
We never heard from the atty again. But two days later, we got a letter in the mail from the Trustee with the date of our hearing... 2 days after it happened.
Ugh. A week after that we got the notice that our case was dismissed involuntarily.
We tried to appeal on our own to no avail. We did complain to the state bar about our atty and she was reprimanded but i don't remember all the details... except that we were basically totally broke and unable to do anything, including hire a new lawyer.
So... we just let it go at that point. Our creditors from before had left us alone and we decided to wait and see what happened. Nothing. They were notified of the dismissal... but I guess because we were in another state, nobody wanted to bother.
Since that time, my husband's health has become worse. He's now on permanent disability (SSDI) and I work a job that earns about $24K a year. We're in California.
Over the last two years or so, with all of the bankruptcy stuff falling off our credit reports we were able to get one or two credit cards, very small limits ($300-$500 or so) and we've had other things pop up, too because frankly... we were idiots and didn't pay attention to anything. None of our creditors from before the 13 filing have tried to contact us -- and at this point the note about the 13 filing and the judgments have mostly fallen off our credit reports.
However.... the judgments are still there according to the court. They were never vacated! Honestly, both of the judgments were awarded while a stay was in place and should never have happened anyway. But, now that we can no longer appeal it and the 13 was dismissed... I can only guess they are still valid even though they were illegal.
At this point, our debt is medical bills and student loans with less than $3K in other debt. We know the student loans aren't discharged. That's fine. The fact is we've never made one payment on those loans in 8 years because of financial hardship/forbearance. Bless them for being good to us. If we could pay them off right now, we would.
So here's out situation now: We essentially have no assets. Everything we do have would likely be covered by exemptions. We have 2 cars, one is 10 years old the other 13. The only jewelry we own are our wedding rings, which aren't worth much either. HOWEVER... I do have a jeweler's bench setup with tools because I have a hobby of making "found art" jewelry -- which I usually give away as gifts. Total there is less than $1K. We each have a computer. That's really about it... oh, and a TV that's about 15 years old and an old easy chair.
We live in a rented house that belongs to a family member. Just about all of the furniture and appliances in the house belong to them. They pretty much left it furnished for us. Almost all of the utilities are in their names, as they just never switched it over when they moved out. We either pay them for it, or we pay the bills directly. There is no written rent agreement. Not sure if this could be an issue or not.
My biggest concern at this point is that we got a sum of money in April that was back benefits from SSDI after my husband's claim was finally approved. We paid a lot of bills with that money... but we also bought my laptop with it because I've been working from home and my older computer was on it's last legs. That was the biggest thing we've purchased in years.
Now, because my husband's SSDI claim took 3 years, we got in to some serious problems. I'm sure that's fairly typical. We had complications with his claim so it took time.
I simply cannot keep up with creditors and still function. Thankd to the class that I took, I've developed a budget that works well for us within our income... but it will only work if the creditors go away. We don't like it... but the threats and calls and letters... my husband is not handling it well. He had a heart attack scare a week ago and spent 12 hours in the ER... he's depressed, stressed and his father passed away this summer which caused a whole new set of problems. His father left his estate in a mess. No cash... and what little money we did have went to paying the funeral home out of our own pocket because his father didn't change the beneficiary on his life insurance plans. The beneficiary is dead, too. His estate isn't wroth much at all...maybe $20K, tops, and that includes the insurance. Of course... he lived in a state where we have to have an atty to probate, and guess who can't afford an atty for probate? Yup.. us. My husband is the only living family member left, so it's all on him. Because of that, and his health... it's bad news.
So, the estate thing is on hold for now... but that's good news, i think... since we aren't legally connected to any of it until the probate court says we are. And even then, there's no telling if his creditors are going to file a claim and if there would even be something left over. We doubt there will. So... we're paying to settle his father's estate... only we can't even afford a BK atty right now, forget a probate atty in another state.
So all told... if you include the debt in the dismissed 13... we're looking at about $90K in debts. Over half of that is student loans for the both of us. The rest of it is mostly medical. We're talking to them about canceling my husband's student loans because of his disability and inability to work, but that's another long process. We're not worried about the student loans at this point. It's all of the other things, the threats... typical stuff.
Our medical expenses are increasing a lot, too. I'm very lucky that even though my job pays next to nothing, they pay 100% of my health insurance for me. But... prescriptions alone cost us over $120 a month for $10 co-pays. Yeah... he's that sick. Plus I have my own issues that have recently popped up... uncluding high blood pressure for which I need TWO medications to control it. I've never had hypertension in my life, yet it's it's become a major issue in the last two months.
Looking at the NOLO means test calculator... I know we're well under the limits.
I would think ours is a somewhat straightforward case... except that I'm not sure about the dismissed 13 or if the estate matters. I don't think the estate matters at all right now. We have no intention of filing for probate until we can afford a probate atty -- and that will be a while. We've just passed the 8 year mark on the 13 filing, so we technically don't have to list it on the petition, though I'm sure it would come up in the 341.
Plus, the added complication is that I don't have copies of any of our 13 paperwork and records of those creditors. It was all in storage out of state... and we lost that storage unit a few months ago to auction when we couldn't pay them anymore. There is no possible way we can continue as we are. And yeah... I really don't like the fact that some stranger bought my files and has access to my information. But, there was nothing we could do - there's no money. And when I say no money... I mean it. Our checking account is overdrawn and I've turned my last two paycheck entirely over to our family member to help pay rent and utilities... since they depend on our rent to make the mortgage payment on the house.
Thing is... at this point, are most of those creditors from the 13 filing (aside from the judgments) now likely outside the SOL anyway? I'm pretty sure that they are... but I couldn't even begin to remember who or what they were for.
The last year has been a real revelation for me... I am a much wiser person about my finances and I'm ashamed at how much I didn't know, how dumb I feel, etc. We've learned how to do things RIGHT now.
If you've read this far, you're an angel! Thank you. I know we likely need to present this all to an attorney... but I'm obviously gun-shy about that having been seriously burned already by a BK atty. have any of you (and I know you're likely not an atty....) had any experiences with something similar? The sooner we get this done the better, I think. My husband's health is too important to continue the stress. Mine, too, frankly. He already feels incapable because of his disabilities, and none of this is helping.
Anyway, here's a quick overview... as quick as I can. No it is going to be LOOOONG, and I'm so sorry about this. I just don't know where else to turn at the moment.
Husband has massive medical bills from 1999, an accident that involved several surgeries, one of which was botched so badly we needed to sue for malpractice.
We received $50K from the insurance company from the accident, but it wasn't nearly enough to cover the medical bills.
Tried for 2 years to find someone to take the malpractice case... was hard because the surgeon is well known and is often an expert witness. Nobody wanted to be a party to suing him, even though we were told by multiple attorneys that our case was clear cut.
Finally found an attorney who would take it right before the SOL expired, but we could not afford his retainer. We gave up. At that point, a local collection agency had filed two different suits for a total of $20K, mostly medical bills. The CA was vicious and they sent people to our house demanding we pay because they knew we got $50K and that we were hiding it somewhere. Hah. I don't know how $85K in medical bills can be paid with $50K... but if you all can figure it out, let me know! (And yeah... these amounts are AFTER his cruddy medical insurance paid)
During our time to respond, I stupidly picked the first BK atty I found who told me not to worry about the lawsuits, that it would be taken care of with the stay. Great... because of assets and circumstances at the time, we had to file a Ch13, and we were okay with that. The plan was to convert it to a 7 after 2 years when we knew our situation would be changing. we filed in the Fall of 2001. Everything seemed fine... except that on TWO different occasions, we were awaken at 6am by the local Sheriffs who had orders to seize our property because of default judgments won by the CA!!!
We KNEW that the CA was aware of the filing, and our attorney said she took care of it. Nope. It wasn't a problem, we simply showed the filing to the officers each time and they were on their way.At that point our atty again said she'd get the judgments vacated because they were illegal, and we figured that's what she did. We had no idea... we were just making our regular payments to the trustee and everything seemed fine... until a year later when we had to move and my husband got a nasty surprise from the people doing his background check. They wanted to know about the judgments on his credit report. Ugh. They knew about BK... and of course, could do nothing about it. We had to show them the BK filing dates... and that was that. He was hired and we again thought all was well, but I called the atty and said this needed to be fixed, because it is still listed as an active judgment! She said it must have been a court error... and she'd take care of it. Okay, I was really dumb and trusting back then... I can't believe I fell for it.
Well, less than 6 months later I hadn't found a job yet after our move and my husband was laid off/fired because his health was beginning to deteriorate and he was having trouble keeping up physically at work. We start to get behind with trustee payments and were in trouble. We could not convert to the 7 for another 6-9 months so we called the atty and asked if we could petition for an amendment to the plan. She prepared the petition and we waited...
A month later, we get a phone call from the atty. She's in the car heading to court because of our DISMISSAL HEARING! (We're in another state at this point) We had no idea there was a hearing, and she never bothered to tell us either. Yeah... I figured out the crappy lawyer vibe by that point.
We never heard from the atty again. But two days later, we got a letter in the mail from the Trustee with the date of our hearing... 2 days after it happened.
Ugh. A week after that we got the notice that our case was dismissed involuntarily.We tried to appeal on our own to no avail. We did complain to the state bar about our atty and she was reprimanded but i don't remember all the details... except that we were basically totally broke and unable to do anything, including hire a new lawyer.
So... we just let it go at that point. Our creditors from before had left us alone and we decided to wait and see what happened. Nothing. They were notified of the dismissal... but I guess because we were in another state, nobody wanted to bother.
Since that time, my husband's health has become worse. He's now on permanent disability (SSDI) and I work a job that earns about $24K a year. We're in California.
Over the last two years or so, with all of the bankruptcy stuff falling off our credit reports we were able to get one or two credit cards, very small limits ($300-$500 or so) and we've had other things pop up, too because frankly... we were idiots and didn't pay attention to anything. None of our creditors from before the 13 filing have tried to contact us -- and at this point the note about the 13 filing and the judgments have mostly fallen off our credit reports.
However.... the judgments are still there according to the court. They were never vacated!
Honestly, both of the judgments were awarded while a stay was in place and should never have happened anyway. But, now that we can no longer appeal it and the 13 was dismissed... I can only guess they are still valid even though they were illegal.At this point, our debt is medical bills and student loans with less than $3K in other debt. We know the student loans aren't discharged. That's fine. The fact is we've never made one payment on those loans in 8 years because of financial hardship/forbearance. Bless them for being good to us. If we could pay them off right now, we would.
So here's out situation now: We essentially have no assets. Everything we do have would likely be covered by exemptions. We have 2 cars, one is 10 years old the other 13. The only jewelry we own are our wedding rings, which aren't worth much either. HOWEVER... I do have a jeweler's bench setup with tools because I have a hobby of making "found art" jewelry -- which I usually give away as gifts. Total there is less than $1K. We each have a computer. That's really about it... oh, and a TV that's about 15 years old and an old easy chair.
We live in a rented house that belongs to a family member. Just about all of the furniture and appliances in the house belong to them. They pretty much left it furnished for us. Almost all of the utilities are in their names, as they just never switched it over when they moved out. We either pay them for it, or we pay the bills directly. There is no written rent agreement. Not sure if this could be an issue or not.
My biggest concern at this point is that we got a sum of money in April that was back benefits from SSDI after my husband's claim was finally approved. We paid a lot of bills with that money... but we also bought my laptop with it because I've been working from home and my older computer was on it's last legs. That was the biggest thing we've purchased in years.
Now, because my husband's SSDI claim took 3 years, we got in to some serious problems. I'm sure that's fairly typical. We had complications with his claim so it took time.
I simply cannot keep up with creditors and still function. Thankd to the class that I took, I've developed a budget that works well for us within our income... but it will only work if the creditors go away. We don't like it... but the threats and calls and letters... my husband is not handling it well. He had a heart attack scare a week ago and spent 12 hours in the ER... he's depressed, stressed and his father passed away this summer which caused a whole new set of problems. His father left his estate in a mess. No cash... and what little money we did have went to paying the funeral home out of our own pocket because his father didn't change the beneficiary on his life insurance plans. The beneficiary is dead, too. His estate isn't wroth much at all...maybe $20K, tops, and that includes the insurance. Of course... he lived in a state where we have to have an atty to probate, and guess who can't afford an atty for probate? Yup.. us. My husband is the only living family member left, so it's all on him. Because of that, and his health... it's bad news.
So, the estate thing is on hold for now... but that's good news, i think... since we aren't legally connected to any of it until the probate court says we are. And even then, there's no telling if his creditors are going to file a claim and if there would even be something left over. We doubt there will. So... we're paying to settle his father's estate... only we can't even afford a BK atty right now, forget a probate atty in another state.
So all told... if you include the debt in the dismissed 13... we're looking at about $90K in debts. Over half of that is student loans for the both of us. The rest of it is mostly medical. We're talking to them about canceling my husband's student loans because of his disability and inability to work, but that's another long process. We're not worried about the student loans at this point. It's all of the other things, the threats... typical stuff.
Our medical expenses are increasing a lot, too. I'm very lucky that even though my job pays next to nothing, they pay 100% of my health insurance for me. But... prescriptions alone cost us over $120 a month for $10 co-pays. Yeah... he's that sick. Plus I have my own issues that have recently popped up... uncluding high blood pressure for which I need TWO medications to control it. I've never had hypertension in my life, yet it's it's become a major issue in the last two months.
Looking at the NOLO means test calculator... I know we're well under the limits.
I would think ours is a somewhat straightforward case... except that I'm not sure about the dismissed 13 or if the estate matters. I don't think the estate matters at all right now. We have no intention of filing for probate until we can afford a probate atty -- and that will be a while. We've just passed the 8 year mark on the 13 filing, so we technically don't have to list it on the petition, though I'm sure it would come up in the 341.
Plus, the added complication is that I don't have copies of any of our 13 paperwork and records of those creditors. It was all in storage out of state... and we lost that storage unit a few months ago to auction when we couldn't pay them anymore. There is no possible way we can continue as we are. And yeah... I really don't like the fact that some stranger bought my files and has access to my information. But, there was nothing we could do - there's no money. And when I say no money... I mean it. Our checking account is overdrawn and I've turned my last two paycheck entirely over to our family member to help pay rent and utilities... since they depend on our rent to make the mortgage payment on the house.
Thing is... at this point, are most of those creditors from the 13 filing (aside from the judgments) now likely outside the SOL anyway? I'm pretty sure that they are... but I couldn't even begin to remember who or what they were for.
The last year has been a real revelation for me... I am a much wiser person about my finances and I'm ashamed at how much I didn't know, how dumb I feel, etc. We've learned how to do things RIGHT now.
If you've read this far, you're an angel! Thank you. I know we likely need to present this all to an attorney... but I'm obviously gun-shy about that having been seriously burned already by a BK atty. have any of you (and I know you're likely not an atty....) had any experiences with something similar? The sooner we get this done the better, I think. My husband's health is too important to continue the stress. Mine, too, frankly. He already feels incapable because of his disabilities, and none of this is helping.
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