New to BK forum

[Lisa85]

Hello BK forum

I have been checking out this site for about two weeks and I am hooked. This obviously is not the best situation to be in to meet new people, however it is great to be able to log on and have so many people supporting you through this life changing experience that don't even know you.

Well I have been contemplating filling chapter 7 bk for a while now and I finally got the courage to make an appt with attorney here in Sacramento, CA where I live. When I met with the attorney she was very nice and she explained to me that she would call my case a perfect seven, very simple case I dont own any property, no means test needed, and i dont make to much money , but enough. However there services come with a 2k price tag and being that I am a single mother with one income, a car payment,car ins, rent,utilites etc. I can not afford that and I am afraid waiting any longer will give creditors an opportunity to put judgements or wage garnishments against me. My income gets me and my daughter by and I have 6k student loan I am paying off to the US dept of education that I can't put on the bk of course so I will still have that bill. I have been on my job with a great company and a stable pay and I am ready for a new start for me and my child. I am 23 yrs and I got alot of this debt trying to make it on my own a young mother. I have been living without credit cards for three years now an I am ok. I want to be able to start saving for her college soon. However trying to pay all this debt I wil never get anywhere.

So being that I can not afford the attorney fees, I met with a document preparer who works for a law office who will charge $ 125 to prepare the bk and allow me to do the necessary filling credit counseling courses and I will file it my-self and proceed pro se.

Thanks everyone for all the info I have received on this forum IT ROCKS!

Any feedback will be great ..... Thanks in advance .

[jribe]

Hi Lisa,
I felt the same way about attorney's fees. They are awful expensive- and unless you have a complicated case- most can file pro se by themselves. The CA Eastern BK court (which you're in) actually has one of the highest rated BK websites in the country for the courts systems. They have an area that tells you exactly what forms to fill out, and which ones to file for an "emergency" filing as well. It's really a good site. www.caeb.uscourts.gov.

I just filed friday in the same district- i used the Nolo 2009 BK 7 book (can find it at any barnes noble, amazon etc)which walks you through almost everything. There's sample forms too.

Plus- the people in the BK court are actually pretty nice. I was so afraid i would mess up the orders of the papers and they would be upset or something.. Nope, nice- you'll even get your 341 date right when you file.

good luck!

Hello BK forum

I have been checking out this site for about two weeks and I am hooked. This obviously is not the best situation to be in to meet new people, however it is great to be able to log on and have so many people supporting you through this life changing experience that don't even know you.

Well I have been contemplating filling chapter 7 bk for a while now and I finally got the courage to make an appt with attorney here in Sacramento, CA where I live. When I met with the attorney she was very nice and she explained to me that she would call my case a perfect seven, very simple case I dont own any property, no means test needed, and i dont make to much money , but enough. However there services come with a 2k price tag and being that I am a single mother with one income, a car payment,car ins, rent,utilites etc. I can not afford that and I am afraid waiting any longer will give creditors an opportunity to put judgements or wage garnishments against me. My income gets me and my daughter by and I have 6k student loan I am paying off to the US dept of education that I can't put on the bk of course so I will still have that bill. I have been on my job with a great company and a stable pay and I am ready for a new start for me and my child. I am 23 yrs and I got alot of this debt trying to make it on my own a young mother. I have been living without credit cards for three years now an I am ok. I want to be able to start saving for her college soon. However trying to pay all this debt I wil never get anywhere.

So being that I can not afford the attorney fees, I met with a document preparer who works for a law office who will charge $ 125 to prepare the bk and allow me to do the necessary filling credit counseling courses and I will file it my-self and proceed pro se.

Thanks everyone for all the info I have received on this forum IT ROCKS!

Any feedback will be great ..... Thanks in advance .

[AngelinaCatHub]

Welcome Lisa. You sound like you 'have it together'. Go girl. The Nolo book is very good, you can down load it pdf format from nolo.com. Keep us posted. 'Hub

[Lisa85]

Thanks jribe and AngelinaCatHub

Thanks jribe that is great to know. I have visited the site and it seems very helpuful. I am more encouraged and excited about my new start . Thanks for all the support. I will keep you posted. Thanks.

[JimKutkowski]

I felt the same way about attorney's fees. They are awful expensive- and unless you have a complicated case- most can file pro se by themselves.

1. Any attorney worth their salt is going to be able to show you in your own finances how to pay for the legal fee.

2. Filing your own bankruptcy, unless it is real simple, is a bad idea because if you miss a debt owed, you will be stuck with it. If you get an objection that you can't answer on your own, then you will be left only with the attorney who will take what is called "a broken case" and that will be more expensive than if you hired an attorney from the beginning because they are going to have to fix the damage done.

3. The fees are so high because Congress added an extra layer of things we have to check in order to file a case. I put an average of 20 hours into a Chapter 7 case when I choose to take one (rare) and 15-20 hours into a Chapter 13 case. Prior to the 2005 law change, the costs were about half of what they are now.

[jribe]

of course someone can show you ways to pay an attorney's fee. However, not everyone needs to hire an attorney. As in the OP's case- there's nothing to complicate things; why should she pay 2k?

If you think a creditor may object- get an attorney. If you have high income- get an attorney. If you've had recent larger purchases- hire an attorney...

But as most people know- if someone is going to have an AP - that's not included in your orginal filing fees with the attorney. Looking at an extra 5-10k in most cases. And while i understand and agree with your point that no really good attorney will take on an AP after someone filed pro se; not everyone will have an AP either.

If you read through this forum for any length of time- you will also see how many people complain that they got an incompetent attorney who did nothing for them. Most came here to get questions answered and fixed things themselves.

Again- I am not saying attorney's aren't worth it - just that not everyone needs one..

1. Any attorney worth their salt is going to be able to show you in your own finances how to pay for the legal fee.

2. Filing your own bankruptcy, unless it is real simple, is a bad idea because if you miss a debt owed, you will be stuck with it. If you get an objection that you can't answer on your own, then you will be left only with the attorney who will take what is called "a broken case" and that will be more expensive than if you hired an attorney from the beginning because they are going to have to fix the damage done.

3. The fees are so high because Congress added an extra layer of things we have to check in order to file a case. I put an average of 20 hours into a Chapter 7 case when I choose to take one (rare) and 15-20 hours into a Chapter 13 case. Prior to the 2005 law change, the costs were about half of what they are now.

[HHM]

But the question of need is not the right question. There is no way, on this forum, we can answer that question.

The issue is whether the person has the time and patience to figure it out on their own. Even with simple cases, there is a a lot to figure out, the forms are not exactly self-explanatory, and even with the Nolo book, filing BK on your own can be a daunting task. If this person is a single, working mother, it is unlikely she really has the time to do this. In that case, the $2K is worth it.

[Lisa85]

Thanks for the feedback .

However like I stated above. I will have the bk documents prepared by someone who does know the process not by myself, and being that I am a single mother I can not afford 2k for an attorney. I know that every situation is different . however it is in the man upstairs hands . So I will be sure to dot my I's and cross my T's and proceed pro se . Thanks jribe

Thanks

[HHM]

As long as you realize going in that you are not receiving the "Same" service by using an doc prep. relative to an attorney. If there are any mistakes and problems, only YOU are responsible. You are on your own.

[frmrdwn]

Thanks for the feedback .

However like I stated above. I will have the bk documents prepared by someone who does know the process not by myself, and being that I am a single mother I can not afford 2k for an attorney. I know that every situation is different . however it is in the man upstairs hands . So I will be sure to dot my I's and cross my T's and proceed pro se . Thanks jribe

Thanks

I'm a single working mom too- never received a penny for child support, but that's another sad story. I thought about filing pro se, but really think about it. If there are errors, even on a seemingly straightforward Ch. 7, your case will be dismissed. I may be wrong, but I think you'd have to wait another 8 years to file ch. 7 again. Call me the worst case scenario queen, but when I think about the amount of stress that my young daughter and I are under now, it would be nothing compared to what would happen if my wages and bank accounts were held hostage for years and years.

Good luck. Lots of people file pro se and are fine, but like I said, I am afraid to take the chance on a one shot deal (well, once in eight years anyway).

[JimKutkowski]

And while i understand and agree with your point that no really good attorney will take on an AP after someone filed pro se; not everyone will have an AP either.

AP? Not understanding the shorthand. I'm at the point in my career where I won't take a pro se case if it has already been filed. Don't know anyone who will.

If you read through this forum for any length of time- you will also see how many people complain that they got an incompetent attorney who did nothing for them. Most came here to get questions answered and fixed things themselves.

Philadelphia Attorneys don't suffer from that malady. We are the best in the world.

Just kidding, I'm sure you'll find an incompetent attorney somewhere in the Metro, just not sure where.

There are a flood of attorneys in the states hit hardest by the housing crisis: California, Arizona, Florida, Ohio and Michigan who joined the bankruptcy bar without knowing anything.

While I am certain these folks are more competent than non-lawyers, I can see how it can happen. If it happens, you can always argue incompetence of counsel, however if you file pro se, you cannot.

[Flamingo]

AP? Not understanding the shorthand. I'm at the point in my career where I won't take a pro se case if it has already been filed. Don't know anyone who will.



Philadelphia Attorneys don't suffer from that malady. We are the best in the world.

Just kidding, I'm sure you'll find an incompetent attorney somewhere in the Metro, just not sure where.

There are a flood of attorneys in the states hit hardest by the housing crisis: California, Arizona, Florida, Ohio and Michigan who joined the bankruptcy bar without knowing anything.

While I am certain these folks are more competent than non-lawyers, I can see how it can happen. If it happens, you can always argue incompetence of counsel, however if you file pro se, you cannot.

I'll second that motion - I work for one of the best!

[Lisa85]

Thanks for all the feedback

I could try saving for an expensive attorney who I may not need and allow creditors the opportunity to put judgements against me or garnish my wages. Then it will only push the bk process out even further and make it harder to save . Like I said before I have nothing to loose but debt, and correct me If I am wrong but you do not have to wait 8 years to refile? Isn't it more like 6 months. In which it would probably take me that long to save for an attorney?

[frmrdwn]

I could try saving for an expensive attorney who I may not need and allow creditors the opportunity to put judgements against me or garnish my wages. Then it will only push the bk process out even further and make it harder to save . Like I said before I have nothing to loose but debt, and correct me If I am wrong but you do not have to wait 8 years to refile? Isn't it more like 6 months. In which it would probably take me that long to save for an attorney?

IF you are dismissed and have to refile, the wait time should be about 6 months (8 years has to do with discharge, not dismissal- sorry). At least that's what I have read. But, you will probably be able to wait out garnishments and the like for that long and then be able to hire an attorney. Mostly, I am thinking of peace of mind. If you file, have a problem, get dismissed and then have to wait six more months to refile, will you be in better or worse shape than you are now?

[Lisa85]

Thanks

Well in the case that I get garnishments I will be in alot worse postion. A creditor had notified me recently that would be there next step if no payment is made, however the attorney that I consulted with explained to me that I should not make any further payment to the creditor if I plan to file any time soon. If I file won't that stop all creditors from being able to make any judgments or garnishmentas against me?