Question Bankruptcy Question

[btrlwyrneded]

OK..how should I begin..well here goes:

My ex-husband filed bankruptcy. He owed me about $10,000 at the time. I knew about the bankruptcy and even talked to the trustee, but was never listed as a creditor by my ex. My attorney said I would be wasting my money getting listed as a creditor because of his living expenses versus his income. So I did not file to be listed as a creditor.
Is there any way to reopen the bankruptcy now to be included as a creditor since I wasn't listed?
He was able to reduce the child support by more than $1,600 shortly after his bankruptcy was complete. His higher obligation was included in the bankruptcy so he isn't required to make payments to creditors. Btw, the reduction in child support was made retroactive so he didn't have to pay me anything for 8 months. He filed for the reduction in child support the same month he filed bankruptcy but the bankruptcy matter was resolved before the child support matter was resolved.
Yes...apparently at the time his lawyer was better than mine!!!
If I were included as a creditor I believe I could ask to reopen due to the extreme changes in circumstances...from what I understand from reading things on the internet. I am not listed as a creditor though.
What should I do...is there anything I can do?
Thank you for your advice and help. Can't afford lawyers right now..

[backtoschool]

If you are not listed as a creditor in his bankruptcy petition, then his debt to you was not dischargable. You can sue him for the child support and his bankruptcy will not protect him from the law suit. You do not need to open the bankruptcy case.

[btrlwyrneded]

Thank you for the advice. I thought of filing a lawsuit, but thought it would be cheaper to file something and be listed as a creditor and let the trustee collect the money than to go through the expense of a lawsuit to collect the money. Getting a judgment and collecting or two totally different things and both are costly. It seems the bankruptcy court has more power in these matters. The money owed is not child support...it is other debt he owed to me, bills he was responsible for that I paid after the divorce and he agreed to pay for and never did.
Thank you so much!

[jribe]

the trustee doesn't collect the money for you.

If you're listed as a creditor- that just means he can discharge the debt owed to you.

Please be more specific about the debt though. Was the 10k from child support he owed? (that is def not dischargeable) or an amount from a divorce decree (also non dischargeable).

If it was a personal loan of sorts- it could be discharged.

Just go through the normal process for suining him; and get another child support hearing. Why did he get his amount lowered by so much if he just filed for BK and now doesn't have a large debt burden? Was there a substantial drop in his income? That would really be the only reason for droppoing the CS so much

[btrlwyrneded]

First, he did not have a drop in income. He actually had an increase. He also had all of his debt discharged in the bankruptcy. He was able to lower the child support because my attorney had worded the child support agreement to say, he will pay $2,500 a month and it is based upon his income in our original divorce decree. It was actually based upon income and a negotiated settlement of our assets. He lied to the child support hearing officer and said it was calculated in error and it didn't have anything to do with his pension. They lowerered it by about $1600.

Our goals were different. I wanted to make sure I had enough monthly to take care of two kids in college and one at home. He wanted to keep his pension and 401K in tact. During the process of divorcing I was paying for things that he said he would pay for half of...like utilities, a lot of medical bills, his part of our daughters tuition and books just before the divorce was final, that I paid for. It totalled more than $10,000. It was all things the last two months before he found his own apartment. He was saving all his money...or I should say hiding it so he could have money after the bankruptcy. He left me taking care of our children completely on my own.

The trustee had advised me to file a claim with the bankruptcy court, but I was afraid as you say that it might have gotten discharged with the rest of his debt. But, he has had so many things that are coming out to me as dishonest. Starting with his claim that the child support was calculated wrongly. One lawyer has told me that since we didn't file a QDRO with the pension and 401K that I could still go after my half of that. I am not sure about that either because it does clearly say that he gets to keep his 401K and pension. Sometimes I think some lawyers just want to file things so they can make money and then you end up with nothing but bills.

I know he did not have to make any payments to the bankruptcy court on his bankruptcy because he listed among other things the $2,500 payment to me. For 6 months he paid me nothing and now it if just over $900. I was thinking that if the bankruptcy was reopened then he may have to start making payments to the bankruptcy court and thus maybe I could get payments for money he owes me. I just don't really know how that all works. I have already spent so much money on the divorce and now there is about $40,000 that should be mine but what will it cost me to get it?
I thought I would look at this site and see if anyone had any brilliant ideas.
Thank you for listening...if nothing else it is good to vent frustration to people who care!

[OhioFiler]

Unfortunately, you don't have any recourse on the $10,000. Your decision to pay expenses he said he would pay doesn't create a debt. You chose to see that the children were taken care of and he didn't.

The child support modification in most likely a done deal as well as far as you are concerned. The trustee should be made aware of his scheme to claim $2,500 monthly child support and paying $0 for 8 months and $900 since then. It appears his disposable income was significantly higher than the court thought. Maybe even some of his creditors would want to know of that.

[Flowers]

If there is a provision in the divorce decree that addresses the $10,000 or so in expenses that he needs to pay it to you then , yes, he needs to pay it as part of the final settlement.

If it was a verbal agreement, you will probably not see that money.

Anyone else agree, do I have this right?

[btrlwyrneded]

There is no provision in the divorce decree for the $10,000. It was in an e-mail though. In the beginning everything was friendly and I didn't see a need to worry about things. He had always been a good father and I never thought he would do this. Our divorce was final in Dec. 2007 and that is when my daughters tuition and books were due to be paid for the next semester. I put it on my credit card. He said he would pay for half.

My attorney had said that in Louisiana there is no provision to put in the divorce decree to make a father help with kids in college. He said he would pay for half though. I took on our other daughters car payment of $300 because of how the money worked out in the child support payment of $2,500. He totally took advantage of me. Left me with everything to pay for and he filed bankruptcy and got off with now no debt and with minimal financial obligations to his family.

He did not move out of my house until Feb. 2008 and he had agreed to pay half of the utilities etc. while he was there and never paid me for that either. I have an e-mail about that too. That is part of the $10,000.

The final thing he did is he works for the state of California and they have this program that you can turn in all of your out of pocket medical expenses and they will reimburse you for it up to $1,500 a year and then the rest goes into a pool that gets disbursed at the end of the year. He always gets 100% of his medical reimbursed. Well he got the EOB's and got reimbursed but never paid the medical bills with the money and I had to pay them. So he made money off of me paying medical bills. There was over $1,000 of medical bills.

It is amazing all the things he has done. The trustee already made him sell stock he was hiding from the bankruptcy court.

At least I can sleep at night knowing I did the right thing for my kids. My only hope now is that maybe I can get half of his retirement without too much expense to me. I know he got to keep that in his bankruptcy case. I just don't know if I have lost my rights now to that as well since it was addressed in the divorce decree but I am being told that since a QDRO wasn't filed I still have rights to it. Anybody know anything about that? Or have any suggestions on how to tackle it inexpensively?

[nerves]

Working in the pension industry, I can tell you that you will need to have the QDRO drawn up by your attorney and signed by the judge. I recommend you contact his HR dept and ask for a sample of the QDRO they require. If it makes you feel any better, they will most likely tap his account for the QDRO processing fee Good luck you.

[btrlwyrneded]

Working in the pension industry, I can tell you that you will need to have the QDRO drawn up by your attorney and signed by the judge. I recommend you contact his HR dept and ask for a sample of the QDRO they require. If it makes you feel any better, they will most likely tap his account for the QDRO processing fee Good luck you.

Thank you for this advice! I have contacted them and they gave me the information they will need from my attorney. Since you are in the pension industry, do you happen to know if I will be able to receive half of it or not like my attorney is saying? I don't want to spend the money only to lose. In my original divorce papers it says that my ex will keep the pension and 401K as part of the settlement. Of course, he tricked me with the $2,500 a month payment that he took back. My lawyer said it doesn't matter what is written in the divorce papers if a QDRO wasn't done. Is that my loophole, like my ex found with the child support? thank you so much for your help!!!
Looks like I have to kiss the $10,000 goodbye that he owes me, but maybe he will have to give me half of his pension. He will still come out way ahead though but I certainly deserve this for my children.

[OhioFiler]

He scammed the trustee with his child support scheme. Send a letter to the trustee.

He is cheating the state on those reimbursements if you paid the bills. Call them and tell them! He can't receive reimbursement for out of pocket expenses if he didn't pay them.

The money he received from the state for those EOB's he submitted is also considered income from the IRS's perspective. Send them a letter as well.

You must become more assertive. Put the piece of excrement in his place. Make his life difficult!

[btrlwyrneded]

He scammed the trustee with his child support scheme. Send a letter to the trustee.

He is cheating the state on those reimbursements if you paid the bills. Call them and tell them! He can't receive reimbursement for out of pocket expenses if he didn't pay them.

The money he received from the state for those EOB's he submitted is also considered income from the IRS's perspective. Send them a letter as well.

You must become more assertive. Put the piece of excrement in his place. Make his life difficult!

I did send an e-mail to the trustee last week, but he has been on vacation and will not be in until today. When he wasn't there I started looking for advice and support on whether the trustee would even be able to help me by reopening the bankruptcy case. I was thinking if he could make him start making payments there then maybe I could recoup some of my losses, but I am not listed as a creditor on his bankruptcy. I am sure the trustee will take action. This has been going on since Nov. 2008, but it just came to me last week that maybe the bankruptcy court could help.

The State of California is in a financial crisis and has a problem understanding basic things. I had addressed this with them about a year ago. I was trying to get my money paid back to me and I told them what he was doing and they chose to ignore it and did not help me. I guess because he is an employee, or just plain incompetent, that is probably one of the reasons they are going bankrupt.

Anyway, thank you for your support and advice. I have to take things easy though because of the children. They will suffer if he gets too angry at me. I just want him to pay me the money he owes me if that is even a possibility ever.

[woeisme]

If the trustee told you to file a claim, and you chose to ignore that recommendation, there's no way to re-open the case, there is a strict claims deadline, and you did not meet it.

On the other hand, definitely report the crap he's been doing, it could get his case dismissed, in which case the BK discharge is no longer in effect, and he still owes you the $.

Best of luck with getting the retirement $. I hope it works out for you.

[nerves]

In regards to the QDRO - if your divorce decree stated that you are intitled to 50% of his retirement account - that should stick. The amount awared in the decree will be the amount processed in a QDRO. If you have the decree stating you are intitled to 50% (this is the most common), and you have a sample of the QDRO form that needs to be drafted - I would head to your lawyer asap and have it drafted and signed by the judge. If the plan administrator is aware of an outstanding QDRO - they normally won't allow for distributions until the QDRO is settled. By allowing distributions without this being settled, they are taking on some liability. I hope this helps. Good luck to you.

[btrlwyrneded]

[QUOTE=nerves;337705]In regards to the QDRO - if your divorce decree stated that you are intitled to 50% of his retirement account - that should stick. /QUOTE]

No, I am probably screwed in all ways. The divorce decree says he will get 100% of his retirement. I gave that up to get $2,500 a month, so that I would have enough money to support the children. After everything was signed then he went back about 8 months later when he wanted to file for bankruptcy and filed to have the child support lowered to just over $900. My attorney says that since a QDRO wasn't done we can go back in and claim a right to half of it. I am afraid to lose again. This seems a little iffy.