Question secured vs unsecured

[joek]

My lawyer filed and objection to the IRS claim, the secured amount was then lowered by the IRS. My plan called for 0% to be paid to unsecured claims. Now, here is the question. By my lawyer having the pay out amended, did he have my plan shortened? Because i am still paying the same payment each time. My plan called for 60 months originally, but at the current payment amount it will only take about 45 months to pay off secured debts. Will the trustee stop the wage with drawals then? or do i keep paying and get refunded? I am at my 40 month now. Hope this does end sooner than expected lol

[justbroke]

My lawyer filed and objection to the IRS claim, the secured amount was then lowered by the IRS. My plan called for 0% to be paid to unsecured claims. Now, here is the question. By my lawyer having the pay out amended, did he have my plan shortened? Because i am still paying the same payment each time. My plan called for 60 months originally, but at the current payment amount it will only take about 45 months to pay off secured debts. Will the trustee stop the wage with drawals then? or do i keep paying and get refunded? I am at my 40 month now. Hope this does end sooner than expected lol

No. An objection to a claim will never change your "applicable commitment period" (ACP). The only way to change your plan duration on a confirmed plan is to file a Motion to Modify Confirmed Plan. As for modifying the ACP, this is usually fruitless, unless you have paid 100% of the allowed unsecured claims in the Plan.

So, let's work this out. If you were over-the-median when you filed, your ACP is 60 months. You must be in your plan for 60 months. Again, in order to modify the ACP, you'd have to file a motion and be successful in getting it granted. I'm not the Trustee, but if I were, I'd object to this because you can still commit your "disposable monthly income" (DMI) to the plan since you no longer have the secured IRS debt to pay. This would, in fact, provide some dividend to the unsecured creditors in months 46 through 60.

Just my thoughts.

[joek]

according to pacer, there was an objection by my lawyer for the IRS to show proof of the amount of debt to the IRS. The IRS modified the "amount" and my attourney dropped the objection, only after the IRS adjusted the debt owed. Now, instead of having $6000 left to pay , debt is $3200, The fact that my payment amount doesn't fit the remaining months for payout leads me to this question, does my payment amount drop or my plan shorten, as it will be paid off before the 60 months?

[joek]

sorry i didnt see the second paragraph about the unsecured. Bu the statement from the trustee shows 3200 left?

[justbroke]

according to pacer, there was an objection by my lawyer for the IRS to show proof of the amount of debt to the IRS. The IRS modified the "amount" and my attourney dropped the objection, only after the IRS adjusted the debt owed. Now, instead of having $6000 left to pay , debt is $3200, The fact that my payment amount doesn't fit the remaining months for payout leads me to this question, does my payment amount drop or my plan shorten, as it will be paid off before the 60 months?

No. Your plan, applicable commitment period (ACP) is based on whether you were over or under the median income. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much debt you're paying... unless you are paying 100% to the unsecured creditors.

In other words, you either get 60 months (if you're over the median) or pay back 100% to the unsecured creditors over a shorter time period.

While your Trustee report may show $3,200 in priority unsecured debt, which IRS is classified as such, what's the total amount of allowed "general" (non-priority) unsecured claims? This is the number that should be concerning you. Priority unsecured debt must be paid back over the plan duration, so it's not really affecting your "commitment period".

Just to clarify... the IRS debt is priority unsecured debt and is a totally different class than general unsecured debt. What will let you out of your plan is, paying 100% of your general unsecured debt or reaching your applicable commitment period, whichever comes first.

So my question is going to continue to be, what is the total of the general unsecured claims that were claimed and allowed in your case?

[joek]

some of this is greek to me, what is the median income to determine whether i am on a 60 month plan or not? When you refer to general unsecured claims allowed, where is the allowed list? On the 13datacentr page beside the general unsecured ones, all show 0% to be paid. If i am understanding correctly, the 0% will have to change to pay the money to anyone, since the IRS will be paid off early. Will the trustee order a change in % to general unsecured or does it have to go to court? My initial paln didnt have room in the 60 months to pay anyone but PRI and SEC, in other words before the change in the IRS owed amount, 60 months @ present installment fit what was owed

[justbroke]

some of this is greek to me, what is the median income to determine whether i am on a 60 month plan or not?

The median income is based on your State's average income. If you had to complete the entire Form B22C (Means Test), then you were over the median.

When you refer to general unsecured claims allowed, where is the allowed list?

The Trustee produces the allowed list and it is part of your confirmation order. I keep my own list as PACER doesn't (easily) indicate which claims were allowed.

On the 13datacentr page beside the general unsecured ones, all show 0% to be paid. If i am understanding correctly, the 0% will have to change to pay the money to anyone, since the IRS will be paid off early. Will the trustee order a change in % to general unsecured or does it have to go to court? My initial paln didnt have room in the 60 months to pay anyone but PRI and SEC, in other words before the change in the IRS owed amount, 60 months @ present installment fit what was owed

The Trustee doesn't order any "change in percentage". This is where people concentrate on percentage when they should only need worry about their disposable monthly income. The Trustee will change what the "payout" is in terms of dollars. The percentage is just a mathematical calculation which fluctuates over time... so it's not a good indicator for you to use personally.

Now that the IRS amount has decreased, the extra (DMI) will go to the general unsecured creditors.

[joek]

I never had a list of unsecured creditors allowed mailed to me by the trustee like the BK hand book states. My "chapter 13 plan" that i got from the US bk court has only listed one creditor,IRS. The other sections on the page has creditor listed several times with "none" under it. I assume this is where a allowed creditor would be listed? There was otehr creditors listed by my lawyer and me in my plan. Maybe they didn't respond to make them allowed?

[joek]

looking back, before i found this site i didnt know what a 341 meeting was, i didnt attend a meeting of creditors. Maybe unsecured creditors didn't show for the meeting? Would I have been required to be at the meeting and where can i find a list of creditors that was or wasnt there? All i know is i had one meeting, the judge ask a few questions and that was it, I didnt have to appear anymore.

[AngelinaCat]

When did you file? Are you a Ch7 or a Ch13?

If you have filed and did NOT attend the Meeting of Creditors--referred to here as the '341', and your case was NOT dismissed, you are extremely lucky.

I have seen cases where the debtor did not show, and those cases were dismissed.

You need to find out exactly where your case lies.

[justbroke]

I am shocked as well.

[OhioFiler]

What were the procedures pre-BAPCPA for a Chapter 13?

His 40 months into the plan would have his filing date around April 2006. Perhaps he actually filed before October 2005.

[justbroke]

What were the procedures pre-BAPCPA for a Chapter 13?

His 40 months into the plan would have his filing date around April 2006. Perhaps he actually filed before October 2005.

Don't think so... you go into Plan 30 days after filing... even pre-BAPCPA. The requirement to attend is not in the Bankruptcy Code. It's in the Rules (4002). That rule hasn't changed since 1987.

[joek]

where can i find the list of unsecured creditors allowed, on the chapter 13 plan mailed to me by the trustee only lists the IRS belowthat each section has a "name of creditor" and below that is "none". Goes on to say "the following is to be paid 100%, this is also "none". The isn't any other creditor listed after that.

[joek]

I figure if there was a meeting with creditors my attourney would have had me attend. Maybe creditors didnt appear?