I've got questions

[Lurker]

[eddiep]

One thing I know for sure is they will not raid your house to seize your property. You will list all your property and what the value of the property. Anything you can exempt you keep, anything you cant you surrender. You will need to see how much of your stuff you can exempt. Do a search for bk exemptions in your state. That will give you a specific dollar amount of assets you can protect. In my state if you are married and filing a joint bk you can double all exemptions. Not sure if that is true in every state.

I do think the boat loan will be a problem.

Were you under the median income level?

[Lurker]

No, I'm not under the median income level.

So what do you mean by the boat loan being a problem? Will they discharge the loan and force me to surrender the boat? I have read about "reaffirming" car loans and such. Is that not possible with a boat? I guess a boat would be considered a luxury item?

Thanks for you help. I've been doing a lot of reading but it's hard to get specific answers-- just general information.

[AngelinaCat]

Hi Lurker: Welcome to the forum.

What eddiep is talking about is that yes, the boat can be considered a 'luxury'. You need a car to get to a job and back. Unless you earn your living as a Fishing Guide, your boat would be considered a 'luxury'. We have had posters here have critical melt-downs when they learn that their beloved motorcycles are considered 'luxuries' by BK courts.

However, all is not lost. Many things depends on your state's exemptions and the Federal exemptions for your state. In some states, the federal exemptions, if better than the state's, can be used. Other states require the use of their state's exemptions. Period; end of Subject. Some states employ a *wildcard* that can be applied to something you want to exempt. Other states, such as Florida, do not.

In no way can you combine State and Federal Exemptions. Whatever you end up choosing, it has to be State all the way, or Federal all the way.

So you need to research your particular state's requirements and exemptions, and the federal and see what might apply to help you.

Good luck to you~~

[eddiep]

I also think the trustee will have a problem with continuing to pay for the loan on the boat. As a part of the process you will have to list all your income and subtract your expenses, like mortgage, utilities, food, car payments, gas etc. whatever is left over, your disposible monthly income, will be considered money you could use to pay off some of your debt in a chapter 13. Passing the means test or being under median does not guarantee a chapter 7, ultimately it is your dmi that decideds wether you have to file ch7 or ch13. I may be wrong but I doubt that a judge would allow you to claim a boat as an expense if you could use that money to fund a ch13. It is not really an issue of whether or not you can exempt it, if the boat was paid off you would need to see if you could exempt it but since you still owe $12k you are not exempting it as an asset you have to justify it as an expense. That was the bad news, the good news is you get to enjoy your boat this summer, get rid of your cc debt, keep your home, and be able to sleep at night instead of worrying about how you are going to pay the bills. And one day you will be able to buy another boat if that is what makes you happy!

[Lurker]

Thanks Angelina!

I'm trying to understand the concept of "reaffirming." So you can only reaffirm loans on things that are neccessities? I definitely realize my boat is a luxury item. No melt down here... haha.

Also, I haven't wanted to open up this can of worms because it complicates things, but my spouse and I have been living together for 12 years. We never married. We live in Oklahoma and apparently there is some legal uncertainty about common law marriage in Oklahoma. I'm sure a lawyer can clear this up for me but I'm just trying to get a handle on how to calculate the numbers for the means test, etc. She is not filing. Do I divide all my expenses by 2 (mortgage, etc.)? Since we aren't techincally married (or are we?), I'm not sure how to calculate everything.

Sorry... I should do more reading on the spouse stuff, I'm sure there are answers out there. But I figured I would throw that out there in case anyone has experience with a similar situation.

[Lurker]

That was the bad news, the good news is you get to enjoy your boat this summer, get rid of your cc debt, keep your home, and be able to sleep at night instead of worrying about how you are going to pay the bills. And one day you will be able to buy another boat if that is what makes you happy!

Good points! Thanks, that helps me understand.

When I started considering filing BK, the boat was the one posession that I thought would be the most painful to let go of. But actually, the more I think about it, I don't think it would be too painful. That boat is alot of work... haha.

[AngelinaCat]

Check out the nolopress.com book on CH 7. Here is an excerpt on Common-law Marriage:

"Are You Married?

If you are married to a partner of the opposite sex,
and you were married with a valid state license, you
are married for purposes of filing a joint petition—and
you can skip down to “Should You File Jointly?” below.

However, if you were not married with a license and
ceremony, or if you are married to a same-sex partner,
read on.

Common Law Marriage
Some states allow heterosexual couples to establish
“common law” marriages, which the states will
recognize as valid marriages even though the couples
do not have a state marriage license or certificate.
Contrary to popular belief, a common law marriage
is not created when two people simply live together
for a certain number of years. In order to have a valid
common law marriage, the couple must do all of the
following:

• live together for a significant period of time (not
defined in any state)
• hold themselves out as a married couple—
typically this means using the same last name,
referring to the other as “my husband” or “my
wife,” and filing a joint tax return, and
• intend to be married.

Alabama, Colorado, the District of Columbia,
Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, New Hampshire
(but only for inheritance purposes), Ohio, Oklahoma,
Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina,
Texas, and Utah recognize some form of common law
marriage, but the rules for what constitutes a marriage
differ from state to state. And, several of these states
will only recognize common law marriages that were
created before a certain date.

If you live in one of these states and you meet your
state’s requirements for a common law marriage, you
have the option to file jointly, if you wish."

I strongly recommend going to the nolopress.com site and purchasing their downlodable CH7. Ours cost less than half of what it would sell for in a regular bookstore. When we purchased ours more than a year ago, they also offered a downlodable 'freebie' which is a layman's guide to simple do-it-yourself type of legal situations.

This guide will help answer many of the questions you are asking here. Good luck to you.

[AngelinaCat]

Good points! Thanks, that helps me understand.

When I started considering filing BK, the boat was the one posession that I thought would be the most painful to let go of. But actually, the more I think about it, I don't think it would be too painful. That boat is alot of work... haha.

This reminds me of another quote I learned a long time ago:

"A boat is a wood-lined hole in the water into which you pour money."

[eddiep]

I understand completely, my hubby has an unnatural attachment to his motorcycle and that was his biggest concern about filing. the bike is paid off and it looks like we will have enough exemptions to save it. but we have agreed to give up my car and keep his bike if things don't work out. He is sleeping like a baby now and I am wide awake trolling the bk forum at 1 am! But the way I see it most of the cc debt was mine and he has earned that bike.