AMEX Stole My Money! (Thanks to some jerk in Virginia)

[SuzieBK]

I was at the grocery store this morning and was mortified when my bank card was denied for NSF. Thankfully I had a fair amount of cash on me and it wasn't a ton of groceries, so I put a few things back and paid for the rest. Then I headed to my bank to find out what was going on. A trip through the ATM yielded a receipt with an account balance of -$4,789.56. WTF?!

Going online, I saw a pending payment to American Express for $5,666.25. When I looked on my AMEX account, it showed a phone payment pending for that amount. When I called AMEX, I was told that they called one of the numbers on my account (they are still researching what number they called!?! but I think it was a four year old canceled cell phone in Virginia), asked for me, the person who answered said they were me, AMEX asked for the payment to be made by a bank debit, the person said okay, AMEX then asked if it was the account ending in XXXX, the person said yes. And then AMEX, with NO VERIFICATION THAT IT WAS ACTUALLY ME ON THE LINE, took the money out of my bank account.

We've filed a stop order with our bank and *should* get our money back by Tuesday, but who knows. I went up three levels of supervisors at AMEX and when I told the second one that regardless of their having some random person on a phone saying they were me, they needed to refund my money, she replied in a nasty tone, "That's not going to happen." Oh, yes, it will. One way or another (even if it comes down to a preferential payment that the trustee goes after), AMEX will not be keeping that money.

I cannot believe that you have to jump over hoops to get account information if you call them, but if they call you, they really don't care who they talk to. Just say "Yes, I'm John Doe" and they'll let you do anything!

In case we don't have our money refunded, at least I'm thankful that our mortgage payment had already come out and it was halfway into the pay cycle, so we didn't have a ton of money in the account. And thankfully I got a couple of checks from clients that I hadn't deposited yet, so we'll have enough to get us through the week, but for sure this weekend we'll be opening a new bank account that's not associated with any of our credit cards.

While I don't want to advertise our financial situation to the wide world, I will be sharing this story in as many outlets as I can find. No security questions, no mother's maiden name, not even what's your address?! So hey, someday AMEX might call you because your phone number is the old number of a delinquent card holder and if you're a real jerk, you can pretend to be them and authorize huge payments from their bank accounts! What kind of person would do that? Once AMEX tells me what number they called, I will be calling it myself and ripping this guy a new one.

I'm so happy I can vent here. Thanks!

[albacore44]

I was at the grocery store this morning and was mortified when my bank card was denied for NSF. Thankfully I had a fair amount of cash on me and it wasn't a ton of groceries, so I put a few things back and paid for the rest. Then I headed to my bank to find out what was going on. A trip through the ATM yielded a receipt with an account balance of -$4,789.56. WTF?!

Going online, I saw a pending payment to American Express for $5,666.25. When I looked on my AMEX account, it showed a phone payment pending for that amount. When I called AMEX, I was told that they called one of the numbers on my account (they are still researching what number they called!?! but I think it was a four year old canceled cell phone in Virginia), asked for me, the person who answered said they were me, AMEX asked for the payment to be made by a bank debit, the person said okay, AMEX then asked if it was the account ending in XXXX, the person said yes. And then AMEX, with NO VERIFICATION THAT IT WAS ACTUALLY ME ON THE LINE, took the money out of my bank account.

We've filed a stop order with our bank and *should* get our money back by Tuesday, but who knows. I went up three levels of supervisors at AMEX and when I told the second one that regardless of their having some random person on a phone saying they were me, they needed to refund my money, she replied in a nasty tone, "That's not going to happen." Oh, yes, it will. One way or another (even if it comes down to a preferential payment that the trustee goes after), AMEX will not be keeping that money.

I cannot believe that you have to jump over hoops to get account information if you call them, but if they call you, they really don't care who they talk to. Just say "Yes, I'm John Doe" and they'll let you do anything!

In case we don't have our money refunded, at least I'm thankful that our mortgage payment had already come out and it was halfway into the pay cycle, so we didn't have a ton of money in the account. And thankfully I got a couple of checks from clients that I hadn't deposited yet, so we'll have enough to get us through the week, but for sure this weekend we'll be opening a new bank account that's not associated with any of our credit cards.

While I don't want to advertise our financial situation to the wide world, I will be sharing this story in as many outlets as I can find. No security questions, no mother's maiden name, not even what's your address?! So hey, someday AMEX might call you because your phone number is the old number of a delinquent card holder and if you're a real jerk, you can pretend to be them and authorize huge payments from their bank accounts! What kind of person would do that? Once AMEX tells me what number they called, I will be calling it myself and ripping this guy a new one.

I'm so happy I can vent here. Thanks!

Mabee when they called that # the person on the phone said "no habla" and the person from India calling from Amex took that to mean "make a payment"

Seriously, that is why I planned in advance, opened up a new account with a credit union, changed my direct deposit, and slowly let my checking with Wells fargo dwindle down to nothing, before completely stopping CC payments. Just following all the advice I learnned on this forum.

[queenfluff]

Wow! What a story! I still can't believe they don't know what number they called - why would they call some old number like that? Did you ever have a cell phone in Virginia?

It looks fishy - like a security breech or some sort of hacker prank - because, if I am understanding it right - the number was on your account and they called it to ask for payment and the person who answered lied and said they were you and your AMEX card was paid for out of your own bank account and whatever number they called is not your current number. Is that right?

What did that person who lied about being you have to gain from this I wonder? Seems so odd - it is not like they got your money. So weird.

Do you think someone got access to your AMEX account and changed the phone number somehow?

What happened to all that security question stuff they normally ask you like "What is your mother's maiden name?" ?

Geesh! That is one of my fears - looking at my account and finding out someone hacked into it and took out my money and pretended they were me.

When they get the phone number they called, you can find out who it is listed as owning it - obviously it is not you right?(unless someone stole an old cell phone from you once) Also, you can prove they didn't call you at that time at your current number. Their number would show up on your bill etc... So make sure you document that you didn't speak to them when that happened.

I so feel for you.

Let us know what happens when you find out who it was.

[SuzieBK]

The Virginia number was my old cell number, but that was FOUR YEARS ago and we changed the cell contact number when we moved. So yes, the number was mine, but it's not anymore and hasn't been for years. And I just cannot fathom that they didn't ask any questions of this person. Even if they had asked to confirm the billing address it would have been obvious that this person wasn't me! Hell, they spoke to a man and I'm NOT a man (note: Suzie is not my first name; my real first name is unusual and *could* be thought of as a man's name). I've got to think that somewhere in their database on me, they have my gender noted, even if it's just that my preferred prefix is MRS!!!

My husband, like me, is furious about this and he's already emailed some online consumer sites and our local newspaper's consumer advocate. Regardless of the fact that, yes, we owe them money, they had NO authorization to take it from our account!

Of course this had to happen on a Friday afternoon, but I'll be calling our attorney on Monday to discuss it with him. If AMEX refuses to return the money (which based on what our bank has told me won't happen, but like you, I worry), we'll scrape up whatever money necessary to have our lawyer file suit. And one of the first things I'll want is the recording of the call. Like Albacore said, it may have been someone who didn't speak English and didn't even know what they were saying "yes" to. I'll definitely be calling whatever number it is--might have a drink or two before I call to really get me in a feisty mood.

We actually did have our bank account hacked into late last year and it was a month-long hassle getting it all resolved, but that was only over $800, not over $5,000! Whatever AMEX wants to call it, they stole our money and we damn well will be getting it back!

[queenfluff]

That is bizarre - why would they all of a sudden use a old cell phone number of yours that you changed on the account 4 yrs ago?

What a dilemma - only because you do owe them money but obviously are BKing so of course you didn't want that payment to happen. But it is still iilegal for someone else to pretend to be you and authorize the payment like that so I think you definatley have a case if you go to a lawyer.

At least, you can definatley prove that the cell isn't yours any more and that you never spoke to the person at Amex.

I know there are many sites that you can look up cell phone numbers and see who has your number now. That is the problem with phone numbers now - esp with cell phones. People get new numbers all the time now and there aren't enough to go around and you know someone has your old number now.

Maybe you should wait to ask the lawyer before you call the You impostor up? I know I would be itching to call and yell at them myself but you definatley want to make sure you can get your money back and not cause any rifts.

I still can't believe that person (both of them!)- maybe they were drunk?
No matter how bad your English is - geez, you would think you would know if you were or were not so-so and had an Amex account so you wouldn't dumbly say yes to the Amex person. What are the chances the person has the same name as you - probably none.

Still mostly Amex's fault for not using the proper security methods.

[fireworks]

That's just more reason to change accounts. I can't imagine how any CC company would allow this to happen, but I'm sure they're betting that you won't do anything about it. Your bank should be able to clear that up.

On a side note, your account was nearly $5000 negative? And your bank let that go through? I've never heard of an overdraft line quite that generous.

[SuzieBK]

Queen Fluff said: What are the chances the person has the same name as you - probably none.

I use Suzie on the forum *because* my first name is quite unusual. And my last name is pretty rare as well. Google my first and last name and I'm the only hits you'll find. Google my first name and the first hit is me, along with two other hits on the first page. If Amex actually found someone with my name, I'd let them keep the $5K!

Fireworks said: I've never heard of an overdraft line quite that generous.

I completely agree. We have overdraft protection, but it's only $1,500 and we've practically maxed it out. I have a feeling even if we didn't file a Stop Payment Order it would have been returned.

And, again, it STUNS me that Amex didn't ask ANY questions of this person, only provided information to them!

[frustrated7]

Call me crazy, but I don't think that Amex actually talked to anyone who authorized that payment. I think they will lie and do anything else to get payment, if they are anything like the creditors that I have dealt with for the past year. I feel for you, what a mess. I hope you get everything straightened out.

Not that anyone has mentioned this in the thread, but I would NEVER give out personal information to some random anybody who calls me. I wouldn't tell a creditor my mother's maiden name or any other information. You don't really know who you are talking to. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but that information is not something I would give out to someone who calls me up demanding money.

[liz417]

Call me crazy, but I don't think that Amex actually talked to anyone who authorized that payment. I think they will lie and do anything else to get payment, if they are anything like the creditors that I have dealt with for the past year. I feel for you, what a mess. I hope you get everything straightened out.

I was thinking the same thing as I read this thread! I don't think AMEX talked to anyone, they are just banking on you NOT fighting this and getting their money.

Sucks! Good Luck!

[dgjmj]

I was thinking the same thing as I read this thread! I don't think AMEX talked to anyone, they are just banking on you NOT fighting this and getting their money.

Sucks! Good Luck!

BINGO I totally agree I do not think they talked to anyone.

[BigJohn]

I don't think American Express talked to anybody; they just took the money.

American Express looks at it "What can they do?"

[ready2puke]

You betcha those lying freakin' a holes...they didnt talk anyone c'mon....they just stole your money and passed the buck so to speak...

[queenfluff]

Wow! Good point guys. I have never had AMEX so I don't know what they are like but I never thought of that.

Basically because I mean - 5K is a lot of money and most people would try to get to the bottom of what happened so wouldn't AMEX know they could get caught that they lied? I mean, the OP can prove she doesn't own that cell phone anymore and hasn't for a long time so she didn't talk to anyone and authorize the payment (and my guess is that it is illegal for them to take money out of the account if it not authorized to do so by the account owner).

Wouldn't AMEX think that the owner of the account will make a stink about it? I would - it's 5K. If it was like 5 bucks, I wouldn't stress myself out about it too much - I would complain and stuff. But 5K, I would talking to my lawyer.

Maybe I am naive on the actions of AMEX but I would just think they would be a little bit more crafty than just making up a lie that some could obviously prove wrong. Are the cc's really getting that dumb?

I would fight it all the way no matter what happened - the cc's do stuff wrong all the time and often consumer don't do anything - just because of that I would be fighting back.

[ready2puke]

I don't think they are that dumb but I do think they are that desparate..And who ever did that at AX will be in big doo doo...I'm sure heads will roll and there will be a paper trail

[queenfluff]

I don't think they are that dumb but I do think they are that desparate..And who ever did that at AX will be in big doo doo...I'm sure heads will roll and there will be a paper trail

That is why I was surprised that they would make up a lie about it. Obviously, it can be proven wrong so why are they even bothering. Yep, I agree all the cc's are desperate now. Just seems so obvious - I think it would have been better from them to just take out the money and not make up the lie - that why only one doodoo is made - but now they got two doodoo's.

Well, since when have CSR been very smart - must be a sucky job though I would hate to do that.