Animals!?

[Inthestorm]

After reading all sorts of info, I'm terrified out of my mind. In GA the "animal" exemption is $300???? Yea, I know that when I try to rent, nobody will want the dogs and cats and they'll have to go to shelter and probably die. But what do I do about my horses? They are my LIFE. They are not expensive or fancy or registered, in fact, we only trail ride. I'm losing my mind for fear of losing them. I'm also going to have to have my small trailer (paid for) and my truck (not paid for) to haul them. What can I do?????? They are my life, and I think my life is going to end!!!

[AngelinaCatHub]

Are you going 7?

Your dogs and cats must be listed as some dogs are pedigree and valuable that is why they ask. I have three cats and I valued them at 1.00 each. They eat more than their worth but not in love.

Your horses could be sold (as the Trustee sees it) but what ages, conditions and of course he knows the expenses of this kind of pet. You must estimate your used trailor and truck at a flea market value. You may be an asset case and the Trustee will negotiate a price and you may have to pay in payments as I did ($5400) for you own stuff to be purchased. The Trustee can make your stuff auctioned, but you can bid on the items yourself, or "buy back" whatever he thinks it is worth. Also negotiate the cost of feed for them, meds and all that and the fact that they are old (if they are) sick (if they are) and not worth much. He may abandon them. Several items of mine were abandoned as they were not worth it to him to bother with.

'Hub

[Naomi]

How many horses do you have? Now, I know nothing about horses, but if you're going to be renting - where are the horses going? Are you going to have to pay to "board" them somewhere? How much does it cost to feed and care for a horse?
Seems like that might be some things you would be asked. The exemption says up to $300 per item so it could be per horse, but you're only allowed $5,000 total for all of these things below.

clothing, household goods, appliances, furnishings, books, musical instruments, animals, and crops up to $300 per item and $5,000 total;

[floridian]

that is a problem... with the economy down the tube, people are abandoning their pets and the shelters are overwhelmed.... with a few exceptions, even the no-kill shelters kill the animals now..

my pets are my kids and i couldnt live with myself if i allowed them to become victims...

you should be able to find a rural mobile home to rent, that would allow you to keep your animals.. you might have to change your lifestyle a bit, but its all depends on how important it is to you..

i honestly know what you are going thru..i am currently living in a place i dont want to live in... i want to be 20 minutes from my elderly mom, who values my visits and when shes gone, i want to feel that she wasnt lonely..

if it wasnt for my dang cats, i would be free as a bird... i could give the world the finger and ride off on my motorcycle...all my macho buddies tell me to dump the cats... one problem, i would never be able to sleep again at night, without seeing their faces as i was driving off..

[Inthestorm]

This exemption mess sounds SOOO horrible!!! We currently have four horses, unregistered, not talented, just trail mounts. One is promised to a friend for $1. The thing is, people are giving them away these days. I recently heard that a PAIR of mules sold at auction for $75! But will the trustee know this?
I'm sorry, I'm still so confused...I read the myths and it says no you don't lose everything, but it sounds like you do!!! I don't see how people can even get on with their lives!!! I'd be thrilled with a trailer on a piece of land. Will they take our yard tools? Riding lawnmower? round pen? Washer and dryer?

People have suggested selling the rest of the horses to friends for a $1 and then buying them back later...can that be done!????

Angelina, We are supposed to go for 7, but have to go back with more documentation to find out if we qualify.

Naomi, Do they actually come in your house and look at all your stuff??? Man, would that be a job!!! I've always shopped at thrift stores and garage sales, so there's a LOT of accumulation.

[walkthaplank]

Have you talked with a BK lawyer? They will know how the trustee sees these things in your area. I think when he finds out they are really just big mutts, he'll estimate their value under the exemption amounts. This is why a lawyer is valuable in BK, not filling out the paperwork, but the familiarity with the trustee and what the trustee is looking for.

[Minnymouth]

Unfortunately Trusttees look at livestock (cattle, horses, etc) as assets that can be sold. Same way with registered pets for breeding. Its money he can get for his creditors. He's looking at cost of animal, what it will sell for, plus it frees up extra money spent on food, upkeep, board rental, vet bills, etc.

If the animals are just pets, and unregistered, the Trustee often tells you that you have to pay him the value of the animals (he'll give you a price) if you want to keep them.

Nobody said filing BK was going to be "kind" in some areas of our life. They also often deny claims of "dancing classes, private schools, etc.

These items are often considered "luxuries" to the Trustee.

[relief13035]

I have a yappy purebred chihuahua and nobody came after him so I wouldn't worry too much.

[Inthestorm]

Well...telling me not to worry is like telling a Bear not to go in the woods!!!

Walkthaplank, yes we did talk to one, a large firm that was supposedly recommended by CCCS as being the "best." However, he was very rushed and told us we wouldn't see him again. We didn't like that feeling of not knowing who we'd get next, then someone said that was a "BK Mill," so we canceled the next appt.

He and his paralegal seemed to to play it like it was possible to keep the horses, asking me to get a statement from an appraiser about their worth. I don't know whether to trust those guys or not.

[Minnymouth]

Yes the horses would have to be appraised for value...... so expect it. It may be ordered by the Trustee at your expense, especially if you want to keep them. So don't be surprised.

As to the attorney...... lots have paralegals that handle most everything for the attorny. You may meet with your attorney once before your 341 and then see him again at your 341. And that may be all you ever see of him.

If it is a large legal firm. You may have a different attorney each time you go for something. Often some do business that way also. One attorney does all the legal paper work, one attends the 341 meeting, and another deals with the Trustee., all under the guidance of a head attorney of the firm.

If you want one attorney, pick one that is in private practice, and sometimes even that have paralegals in training.

An attorney that won't answer questions, won't call you back, and is never available....... is not working in your best interest.... find you another attorney you are comfortable with.

[dingdong]

Get your local trusted vet out for their Summer West Nile shots and have him/her give you a valuation. Make sure he notes, arthritis, any tendancy for laminitis, that old suspensery ligament injury, confirmation faults, if they are geldings ( they can't be bred) have him name every fault dealing with their soundness ( even if they aren't big issues) and bring that to the 341. I seriously doubt they are going to say anything about your trail horses.

My friend filed BK and her kid has a couple very talented eventing horses, they just listed their value as next to nothing and as pets.

We listed ours as pets with a low value as well.

Never mentioned at the 341, wasn't an issue at all.

I don't think a TT is going to go after anyone with trail horses, unless you happened to use them as a means of income, like "rent our horses at the beach for 30.00 a ride"

Even, in the very slim chance that they did show interest, you can always make a deal with the TT and buy them back.

Don't worry about it , it probably wont be an issue at all.

I saw a very nice TB mare listed on CL, for 500.00 near me. It has been listed for at least 5 months repeatedly.

Nice TBs were recently sold at a university auction near me, the highest price they got for them was 450.00, some of them went for 75.00. These were nice 2 yr old TB that had never been to the track and were sound.

[floridian]

you have to be careful when yu move to a new area, when you have pets.... i looked for a year for a place where i could be in a nice house and keep my pets...i thought i had really lucked out, as the place seemed perfect..

i ended up living next to some geezers from hell and had to either move or give up the pets... i moved back here and lost thousands of dollars...

[Inthestorm]

y'know, I don't understand why an unregistered "mutt" horse would be valuable even if it were still able to be bred? Don't they have to have special talent and/or good bloodlines?

[queenfluff]

There is a thread about horses and exemptions under the exemptions section of the forum.

here it is:

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=28901

I dont have horses myself but I have three cats - worth nothing to the courts but worth everything to me - and i was so worried about them before I did this. My lawyer put them down (all three of them ) as a value of $0.

I don't agree but that keeps them safe and with me than fine they are worth $0.

Horses are a tricky one because even though they are pets to some people they are sold by others as livestock or like as a racing horses - so in the later case they would be worth something. So please read that thread it talks about a case with horses as pets - it might be of some help to you.

Another tip for you is to call your local shelter and ask them if they have a list of any shelters that might be for horses. It might be possible that your horses could go somewhere temporarily if you can't afford to keep them.

[JoeBankrupt33]

You mentioned selling a horse for $1 then buying back later. This is hiding assets and could get you in deep trouble unless you sell the horse for fair market value and use that money for exempt assets or for regular living expenses. If you really can only sell one horse for less than $300, then you should be fine.