I'm new, need to vent about what to do

[3littlebirds]

Hey there...

I just need to vent, and maybe ask for some support or "what I did" replies...

Needless to say I can't even believe we're contemplating BK. We started out thinking about just walking away from the house but now we don't know what's better. We don't have a crapload of CC debt ($15K) but it is a crapload considering how really responsible we've been, thanks mostly to DH who is really good with our money. Up until I lost my job 6 months ago we at least were able to pay more than the minimums on the CC's and keep the utilities current. Now that he's not working much (self-employed in construction) we really have had to make some hard choices and up to this point it's been to get the bills paid on time at ANY cost because we thought our good credit was so important. This is the first month we've been unable to pay the mortgage though, and that's scary for us. We really don't know where to go from here. I keep hoping we'll get some sweet loan modification once all the new plans get implemented but since neither of us have much income, if they try to get a new mortgage payment under 38% of gross income our payment would have to be dropped to like $500! We currently don't escrow taxes or ins - our property taxes alone equal $500 a month, so how is that going to work!?

I just feel really lost. I keep scrolling through all the threads on here and on another site dedicated to fighting foreclosure and I just don't know what to do. Every day I wake up thinking, "maybe I'll find a job today" but how long am I supposed to do that before we either file BK or decide once and for all that we have to let the house go, or both?

How did everyone decide what to do?

[lrprn]

To make the decision you deal with what you see right in front of you, not what might happen in the future. That's just wishful thinking (with perhaps a touch of denial thrown in for good measure ).

Filing isn't the end of the world. It's just a way to get back on your feet financially when there's no other realistic way to do so. It's a cold, emotionless decision made looking to what's going to make the most sense for your family for years to come.

If foreclosure gives you a better financial flow immediately and you can get back on your feet just by letting the house go now, then that leaves bankruptcy in case your financial situation takes a real downturn later.

These are very tough decisions, yes, but don't let your fear paralyze you into inaction.

[eddiep]

Six months ago I was in the same boat as you, only we have ALOT more cc debt. I never thought we would be filing bk just a year ago but here we are. Hubby was out of work for three months, mortgage payment was more than I made, property tax $514 a month (do you live in NH?) and we had not made a payment on the taxes at all during 2008. It was such a frightening time! My husband was also great with money and he was always the responsible one. A month after he lost his job he tried to commit suicide, he felt like there was no way out, he kept thinking that our lives would never be the same if we didn't have good credit and he couldn't bear the thought of letting us down. Well we are six months into this nightmare and I have to tell you things have completely turned around for us! He found a job, we were successful in getting a loan modification that lowered our payment by $1030 a month, the bank deferred our mortgage payment for three months while they complete the paperwork which allowed us to pay the $6500 we owed in back taxes. We are going to file bk7 in April. We have been living without any credit cards for 8 months now and are getting along just fine. Don't give up! I know things will be different now that our credit is destroyed, but carrying that debt was not helping our score either. We never thought we would turn this around but we did! Have you been to www.loansafe.org? I got a lot of great advice on the mortgage from the members over there. If there is anything I can do let me know!

[SBayBruce]

re: I"m new, need to vent....

Hi 3littlebirds:

I am new to the forum (just joined today), but not to the process--I had to file a Chapter 7 before. That was due to poor money management, this time is due to being laid off from a job in 2007 that I had for almost 27 years, spending the last couple of years working for half the income I used to make, and then I had a weeks hosptial stay in January, my employer told me I should be covered by insurance (I had been there 6 months) but then stated that I was not, then they decided the werent bringing me back.

So I have been out of work since January, with a good deal of credit card debt, a hospital bill of over $75,000, and no way at my projected income, once I find a job, to pay it back. I really hated to do a second BK, because I'm just almost 10 years into the first (that will show TWO on my report, ouch), and had worked so hard for the past 10 years, not missing a single payment to anyone, paying off a new car, and so on, but there is just no alternative. I have started my new case with an attorney, and have started referring my creditors to him.

Now that I'm done with my sob story, I would like to give you some encouragement, I know it's a tough, scary time, but you will get through it (I know, I've been there). The best thing if you haven't yet, is consult a bankruptcy attorney who can advise you what your options are. Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck.

Regards

Bruce

Chapter 7 filed: Dec 1999
341 Meeting: Jan 2000
Discharged: Apr 2000

[Flamingo]

To the OP - many of us on here never thought in a million years we would end up having to file bankruptcy. It can happen to anyone so don't feel bad you have ended up in that situation. One thing I have learned and that all will eventually learn is that debt causes bankruptcy and something occurs in one's life, be it a job loss, major medical situation, divorce, to cause a lack of funds where one is not able to pay the bills or it couuld be the opposite situation where someone just goes nuts with credit and finds themselves unable to pay their way out. You will get through all this and straighten it out. Believe it or not it is not the end of the world. Use it as a teaching tool to shape what you do from here on out - make sure any debt you have in place in the future is not large and affordable and have a safety cushion in place in case there is a job loss again in the future. Learn to budget and plan and learn how to control your money and not let it control you. You will see what I mean in a few years.

[3littlebirds]

Thanks everyone for your encouragement. I know we're definitely not alone but that doesn't take away some of the "OMG" mindset! Whether we win the lottery tomorrow and everything is cured or we end up filing to start over, there are already lessons we've learned about how to have a more secure future from here on out. I think my biggest frustration is about the fact that we have never lived outside of our means, and I naively assumed that many people who end up filing DID...I know now that is definitely not true!! Even when I was working and my husband's business was doing OK, we NEVER went out to eat, or to the movies, or bought things for ourselves. Up until now (but especially now), buying a new deodorant stick at Target makes me feel like I'm splurging on myself!

eddiep, I can't imagine going through that with your husband, and I'm so glad that you got through it. I can, however, definitely understand living with a guy who doesn't want to let the family down....my DH is not one to show a lot of emotion, and always keeps a tough-guy facade, but I know this is really testing him. And YES! Loansafe was the site I was referring to!

Thank you Bruce and Flamingo also for your encouragement. I'm really glad I found this site...it's so informative that I actually initially felt empowered enough to file pro se if we ended up filing.....not sure now if I will due to some answers to some questions I posted on a different thread but either way, this place is a wonderful resource!!!

[SBayBruce]

Hi 3littlebirds:

Well I'm happy that we could help; I'm glad you are feeling better. One thing is, if you don't mind a bit more advice, i would not file pro se. Bankruptcy is a federal matter, and there is a chance (very remote, but it's there) that a creditor or two may challenge, depending upon the creditor, the type of debt and the amount, e.g. do you owe so much it would be worth their while to try to recover it). This is really something you are better off having an attorney for, to ensure all of your paperwork is done correctly, to co ordinate
the new requirements, and to be with you when you face that trustee. I would be especially wary if you have any obligations with credit unions, they are particularly agressive if your balance is big. I have also heard, that Sears, for some reason will challenge, I'm not sure why exactly. Most anyone else, that's unsecured, though will generally not show up. As far as any repo threats you might get, from what I understand, the only propterty they can just sneak in and take is your car; any thing "inside the home" electronics, computers, etc, they have to go to court and get a judgement first. There are some credit agreements (Best Buy, Circuit City, Dell, etc), that state they have a "secured interest," but in reality, it isn't worth their time and money, to say go after a $600 LCD TV that you've had for a year. That's over a thousand dollars or so in attorney's costs, and then what could they resell it for? Like all the other callers, refer them to your attorney who can tell them you will "consider" reaffirming the debt. (But don't, really). Reaffirming is a whole other subject, but to give you the short advice, (just my opinion), once you are clear of a BK especially Chapter 7, with the exception of maybe a car note, don't reaffirm anything. (Remember, you just went through this whole ordeal to get RID of all those bills)

Finally, having an attorney helps with the stress---once you have started at least making payments on the retainer, when a creditor contacts you (they started calling me literally 4 days when I was one payment past due), you can politely tell them, "I'm sorry, but unfourtunately, I will have to be filing bankruptcy. I have been instructed by my attorney to refer all calls to him; are you ready for his name and phone number?" If they try to ask any more questions, just repeat that, if they persist, ask for a supervisor. If they continue to give trouble (they know damn well they are wrong), get their full name and notify your attorney. If they refuse to give their name notify your attorney. If they do anything except take down your attorney's name and number, notify your attorney. If they call you again, after this notify your attorney. See how the attorney takes the stress off you?

[3littlebirds]

There's definitely a lot of things that could come up, that's for sure. I think we have a "simple" case, but who knows!?

I just left a message with an attorney, hopefully he'll call back today. I told my husband that even though I consider myself smart, thorough and organized enough to probably file without an attorney, I'd hate to screw it up and have to start over and pay an attorney anyway! Now if the huge old trees in our yard would just start growing dollar bills so we could pay him, hahaha...

[StartingOver08]

Filing pro se is not for the faint of heart. I would never do it - if you have any sort of complexity you want a good attorney.

Based on another thread of yours, you probably need a good attorney. One of the big benefits is they know the TRUSTEES! So they know what will fly in your specific district - they know who is 'reasonable' (Trustee) and who is difficult to work with in a BK.

A good attorney knows all the little quirks too. Like in my district the judge hates satellite TV - thinks its a luxury item. I have been on satellite TV for almost 20 yrs. You can bet I paid off the service and sent back the equipment about 4 months before filing I did not want a PO'ed judge - if it got that far. I had enough issues to deal with without the petty things to get in the way. These are things a good attorney will know. Pro Se, you would have no idea. JMO

[BigJohn]

If your property taxes are about $500.00 a month, I would try to get the assessment reduced. Paying $6000 a year in taxes is a lot in my opinion.

[3littlebirds]

Yeah, the taxes were the biggest drawback to our house. We're lucky, there are some on our street pushing $8K/yr. And we're not in some fabulous gated community either...too bad the schools suck around here since that's where all that tax money goes. We considered trying to get it reassessed, but based on our calculations it would've saved maybe $500/year, which, is something but at the time wasn't worth the effort. Our neighbor tried and they denied her, that sort of cemented the deal.

StartingOver, I definitely respect your opinion...I already feel better having contacted the lawyer. We're meeting with him tomorrow!

[StartingOver08]

Thank you 3littlebirds! Good luck with your appointment. Make sure to find out if the attorney is going to actually BE at your 341. For me, this was extremely important.

I had a friend of mine file BK within 30 days of my filing (we didn't know at the time). She had a different attorney and her attorney did not show up, but sent a jr newby lawyer to the 341. As a result, she had to move out of her surrendered house within 30 days of the 341 and I am still in mine for many, many months until the final judgement. That action alone has saved me thousands of $$$ at a time when I really need the help to get back on my feet. Don't under estimate the power of a good attorney. BTW, there is nothing in the law that says she had to move out - it was her trustee flexing his power muscles!

[eddiep]

Make sure you get an attorney that specializes in bankruptcy.

[3littlebirds]

So we met with that attorney yesterday.........

And now I feel like ignorance is (was!) bliss. StartingOver, I know you read my other thread with the issues of a couple vehicles...he's like, "oh, you're fine, it's not a big deal, you were doing what you had to do to get by." Which is true, but thanks to this site I know it COULD be an issue, so I guess I was surprised by his lack of....I don't know, worry, I guess.

I played stupid and pretended that I hadn't been reading this site obsessively for the past week because I wanted to see if he would address the things that I found out on my own might be issues, ya know? That way I'd know if he's worth it or not. We didn't sign anything with him so we're not stuck with him but I'm not sure how I feel about him. He really didn't seem concerned about anything....I mean, other than my car issue I think our case is pretty much solid but should I be worried that he seemed so cavalier??? On the other hand, he was a really nice, personable guy. We have a contact for another attorney but he's a friend of a friend that I'm pretty sure normally deals with bigger fish than lil' old us, so I'm not sure if we'll call him.

Thoughts?

[StartingOver08]

Interview several BK attorney's. There have been a more than a few people on the board that have experienced a bad attorney, but did not know until the case was filed and the Trustee 'suddenly' came up with an issue. Then the attorney doesn't respond to the debtors questions or becomes uncommunicative or the attorney fails to file the entire petition. You will get a better perspective when you have interviewed a few and then you will know which way to turn.

There is a thread around here somewhere on what questions to ask your attorney when you interview him/her. Just check the search feature.