Moral Dis-equivalency between debtor and creditor

[Mi Bankruptcy]

The bible was one of my final decision makers.. filing bankruptcy had been sitting in the back of my head.. I started to read the bible over a year ago part time. When i was thinking about filing I accidently arrived at the section of "Deuteronomy(sp?)" about forgiveness of debt..

The funny thing is.. I forgave my self and filed.. AND.. I am not a Bible thumper..

Those creditors that are jacking up rates because your late somewhere else or your FICO gets changed because debt to income or something else, they will get theirs in the end..

Karma..

You only have to look around to know Greed and Karma are dancing right now.. Muhaaha, Muhaahaa

[Willy13]

I really don't see any difference between a credit card company and a drug pusher. They both have very addictive products that they know people have a hard time controlling. They both use their products to exploit people to the fullest. Both products can be very damaging to their victims. Both can lead to illness and crime. The only difference between the two is we put pushers in jail for many years but banks get to make our lives a living hell with the laws blessing.

No I didn't have to borrow the money I did. Just like the junkie never had to do the drugs they did. Just funny how in the end the drug user is looked at as the victim and the debtor is treated like a criminal. Seems like a double standard to me. Then again, if the drug dealors owned the government like the banks and other large corporations do, then I'm sure this double standard would no longer exist and they would be suing us and sending us to collections as well. I see neither more or less moral than the other.

[OhioFiler]

I really don't see any difference between a credit card company and a drug pusher. They both have very addictive products that they know people have a hard time controlling. They both use their products to exploit people to the fullest. Both products can be very damaging to their victums. Both can lead to illness and crime. The only difference between the two is we put pushers in jail for many years but banks get to make our lives a living hell with the laws blessing.

No I didn't have to borrow the money I did. Just like the junkie never had to do the drugs they did. Just funny how in the end the drug user is looked at as the victum and the debtor is treated like a criminal. Seems like a double standard to me. Then again, if the drug dealors owned the government like the banks and other large corporations do, then I'm sure this double standard would no longer exist and they would be suing us and sending us to collections as well. I see neither more or less moral than the other.

Actually, there are significant differences between a drug dealer and a lender beyond what you posted.

I don't see drug abusers as victims, nor do I see credit abusers as victims. We all make our own choices. I won't blame the credit industry for my bad choices and I wouldn't blame a drug dealer if I were a crackhead.

[CatsInTrouble]

Doesn't the bible also say it's my moral duty to kill my kids if some invisible zealot in the sky says so?

"historical" basis? come on now!!

Interesting discussion minus the "historical" text, though. I bet you could find a more acceptable text from which to quote that lays out that same practice, with citations and first person accounts, though. That would be interesting. I wonder how long that practice goes forward into history (forgiving debts every 7 years). Are we talking on into Tudor times? On into colonial times? Very interesting!

[CatsInTrouble]

It's kind of like they sell you this really nice sportscar to drive. So, you get the car and are driving down the highway, knowing speeding can be dangerous, but it's so much fun to drive and the whole time the salesman is in the drivers seat saying "faster, faster, you know you wanna". All of a sudden you realise you are going over the speed limit and the car turns out to be defective and somehow becomes impossible to control. You wreck. When it's all said on done the salesman turns to you and asks "why did you drive the car so irrisponsibily?" and "didn't you read the fine print under the floormat which states the car will be uncontrollable over 55 mph?".

Wow. This is a classic, classic post. Excellent parellel.

[hooloovoo]

For me, I feel obligated to pay it back. I also feel like the CC companies make it about impossible to do. But, I don't think they can really feel all that guilty about it since they are not a single person facing a personal decision, they are a big company looking at numbers trying to stay profitable. I'm renting a house out right now, and my tenents recently got laid off. I absolutely felt guilty about the possibility of having to evict them (luckily they got back on their feet and are catching up now). But that's a personal one on one relationship here. I'll be completely honest and say that if I was just one person in a giant corporation that handles millions of accounts, well, no I probably wouldn't feel so guilty. Especially after dealing with countless people who are defaulting, you likely either hit a point where you learn to dehumanize the person on the other end, or you run away depressed.

That may be a bit rambly, but the point is, corporations don't work like individual people. For us, our debt is very personal. For them, it's a number on their balance sheet. That's just the nature of the beast.

The part that does tick me off is how they handle it though. We are basically milked to recover as much money as possible before filing, and other people are paying to cover the money lost on those who do default (the basis of interest). The banks essentially force many people to file for bankruptcy. Right now, I've got several cards at nearly 30% for being overlimit a few times, or maybe paying one day late a year ago. I've tried to call and get it down, they don't care. I've explained that I'm on the brink and if something doesn't happen I'll have no choice but to file. They don't care.

I've given this some thought and figured their basic strategy is to get as much money as they can out of me, before I file. I mean, if I pay 30% interest for a year and then file for bankruptcy, they've made a lot of money on my debt. Even if I default, they made more money on me than they do on a guy who charges $100 a month and pays it off every month. I'm their ideal customer, I pay my bill on time at 30% interest never really paying the balance down. I'm a cash cow! What incentive do they have to work with me? None. They lower my interest rates. Well, now they're making less money and who knows how much they would have made if they'd kept sticking it to me. So they don't lower it. Sure if I get a few months behind maybe then they'll talk. But they're not going to let me off until they have no choice.

Is that 'moral'? No clue. From a business perspective, it makes sense. From a moral standpoint, I guess it depends sense morality tends to be subjective. Is it more moral for them to charge me 30% interest and keep me hanging in debt than it is for me to shrug it off when I can't take it anymore? I don't know.

The upcoming legislation is a huge improvement, but too late for many of us. Leave it to congress to pass some great consumer protections and then give 2 years before enforcing it. But at that point, no more universal defaults. No more retroactive interest rate changes. No more default rates unless you are 30 days late. It'll be a happy day!

[DaisysMom]

AmEx

How many of you recall a commercial that American Express was running during the last year. (And I just saw it within the last month!) The guy is in a jewelry store trying to purchase an engagement ring for his bride-to-be.....the saleswoman comes to him and says there is a problem......he is over his limit on the "other" card......so his bride-to-be suggests he call American Express and poof....everything is peachy.

Now what is this commercial saying.....the guy was ALREADY maxed out and yet they wanted to give him ANOTHER credit card. Doesn't matter what financial shape your in...come and apply!!!

The credit card companies did much of this to themselves. They deliberately targeted people with low credit scores, knowing that many of them would accept a higher interest rate for the "privilege" of being able to carry and use plastic. And of course, knowing that those with a lousy credit score were the ones most likely to be late on a payment, they put in the default interest increase, knowing it was just a matter of time until the person was late on a payment, overlimit, etc.

They did this to themselves, and it bit them right in the hiney.

D...