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    Question Arrearage reduced to judgment

    Before any one goes on a rant, the arrearage in question is due to hubby being taken to court EVERY SINGLE YEAR for raises in CS by his contentious ex and the courts taking their GOOD OLE SWEET TIME deciding that A+B=C. Each year, there was an addition to the arrearages of anywhere from $2000 to $4000 each year. This went on for ten years and CSE hopped on this about one month before the youngest child emancipated at the age of 19.

    But I digress, just wanted to deal with what I'm sure will be a flood of avoiding the question all in favor of telling me what a piece of crap my husband is...

    Anyway, on May 1, 2003, the arrearage was reduced to a simple judgment, as the youngest had emancipated. At the same time, monthly payments were reduced from $1000 a month to $250 a month, which we have been paying via wage assignment ever since. This May will, obviously, be 6 years. At no time was my husband's ex on welfare of any kind and the state is owed no monies, this is simply arrearages the ex feels she's entitled to even though both children are long gone, married and have kids of their own. (Side note: the ex has looked long and hard for ways to stay in my husband's life, even though she left him for another man while he was gone during the first Gulf War, which is apropos to nothing, I just like to tell people what a cheating ho she is...)

    I have been seeing on various websites that a CS order reduced to judgment is dischargeable in BK proceedings. We filed a CH 13, or rather out attorney did, a week and a half ago (God, was that wonderful that the phone stopped riinging INSTANTLY! I picked it up a few times the first few days to make sure it wasn't inadvertantly shut off for whatever reason, knowing the bill was paid). Now, CSE in Colorado, where the judgment is located, tell me they can't offer her any legal assistance with this, that they routinely don't show up to 341 hearings because CS is not dischargeable. However, the original creditor is DH's ex-wife, not the state.

    I have tried researching this on the web but everything I find relates to the children still being minors and in the home. My step-kids are not still in the home of their psycho mother and have, in fact, got kids of their own.

    My DH's ex is a particularly ignorant woman (I could share stories but won't, suffice it to say hubby gets his whole military retirement because she didn't know she had to file the paperwork) and is completely reliant on "the system" and "the man" to do her dirty work for her. She will probably do nothing with regard to this and CSE has already told me that CAN'T do anything other than forward the paperwork to her. However, CSE refuses to stop wage assignment until they are given a notice of discharge, which they assure me they will obey without appealing.

    This particular issue has been weighing on me heavily, and let's admit it, it's not the money. We were resigned to paying it for another three years anyway, including being nowhere near resentment when the income tax returns were taken since every $250 she got removed a month of obiligation from the debt. I just am SO sick and tired of her being in our pocket. Now that I am disabled and unable to work, I can no longer stomach seeing that cut from hubby's paycheck when all the woman did was lay on her back with a stranger and was then financially rewarded for it. Also, to add some honey to the pot, we just found a few days ago that the broken leg my stepson suffered when he was 15 (eleven years ago) was NOT due to his falling off a trampoline but due to his mother shoving him down the stairs at her home. Following that bit of abuse, she THEN refused to use the provided (military) insurance and filled out all the medical forms as though she were me, using my SSN that she got from the courts due to the requirement hubby submit IRS stuff, and then proceeded to creat nearly $100,000 in medical bills that took me three years to take care of, in the form of proving we weren't in CO when it happened and giving them all the info to track down his ex.

    Now I'm just ranting but this has all stirred up alot of garbage I've been buring for years and I'm hoping all of you can forgive my little spleen burst...

    Has anyone else gone through a similar situation in the BK court? What can we expect?

    #2
    Originally posted by NancyLou View Post

    Has anyone else gone through a similar situation in the BK court? What can we expect?
    I'm reasonably sure that you can expect that your husband will not be able to have this debt discharged.

    I read here that if you filed a Chapter 13, you may receive a temporary stay of collection efforts while the bankruptcy process occurs. This
    stay is only temporary. Neither current or back payments owed are dischargeable in bankruptcy.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by 2Bshinyandnew View Post
      I'm reasonably sure that you can expect that your husband will not be able to have this debt discharged.

      I read here that if you filed a Chapter 13, you may receive a temporary stay of collection efforts while the bankruptcy process occurs. This
      stay is only temporary. Neither current or back payments owed are dischargeable in bankruptcy.
      Were this actually still CS, I might believe that but our attorney is waiting to see the actual wording of the judgment since the people at CSE are calling, asking us what law pertains to this, and I was told by one of them today, when they called again to ask us for specific law, "Good for you guys finding this." And they weren't the least bit sarcastic. Apparently, they are frantically trying to figure out how this "loophole" was not discovered sooner and how can they close it.

      See, you are making the same mistake I was making, in finding stuff online that pertains to someone who is still paying on a court order for minor children and THAT cannot be discharged, but, as I stated previous, the kids are no longer in the home, haven't been for several years, and the CS was reduced to a judgemnt after the youngest child emancipated. There is nothing that covers this situation.

      And, shiny, while you are perfectly lovely on the boards, you are coming at this from the angle of someone who might be in a situation someday where your ex might do this to you. I was hoping to hear from someone who is on the receiving end of the angst of a contentious ex-wife rather than someone who has a vested interest in "no one" getting out of CS.

      I am still searching the boards here to see if anyone has gone through a similar situation and understands the difference between child support and judgment.
      Last edited by NancyLou; 03-03-2009, 04:04 PM. Reason: accidentally hit the button

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by NancyLou View Post

        I am still searching the boards here to see if anyone has gone through a similar situation and understands the difference between child support and judgment.
        A Child support order is a judgment. Nothing different about it. Whether it is paid directly to the other parent, or is collected through a state child support collection agency, the driving instrument is an ORDER FOR SUPPORT, or whatever it is called in the state that ordered it, which is simply a judgment. If there was some sort of activity that occurred after the youngest was emancipated, maybe your husband's most recent order may have stipulated that since the children have reached the age of majority the order is not modifiable? In any case, a child support order is a judgment.

        All domestic support obligations are not dischargeable, whether it is child support, child support arrearage, alimony or alimony arrearage. If you can find a loophole i would be very curious to see it. I'm not a lawyer but I have read plenty of caselaw and in every instance all domestic support obligations whether current or past-due, even if the child for whom the support order was given is emancipated cannot discharged.
        Keep us posted!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by NancyLou View Post
          n.

          And, shiny, while you are perfectly lovely on the boards, you are coming at this from the angle of someone who might be in a situation someday where your ex might do this to you. I was hoping to hear from someone who is on the receiving end of the angst of a contentious ex-wife rather than someone who has a vested interest in "no one" getting out of CS.
          My ex husband was married before and paid CS for his son (my step son) for 18 years...I have a 25 year old step son. I am well aware of how CSE works from many angles and I would say my step sons mom was extremely contentious

          Comment


            #6
            Okay, let me try this ONE LAST TIME

            It is not an order for child support any longer... It is an Order for JUDGMENT. To put it in words you can understand... IT'S NOT A CHILD SUPPORT ORDER but an order allowing CSE to collect as the COLLECTION AGENCY. The Original Creditor is his ex-wife. The youngest child is EMANCIPATED... What emancipated means is SHE REACHED THE AGE OF MAJORITY PER COLORADO LAW. The ORDER FOR JUDGMENT was entered AFTER the youngest child MOVED OUT OF MOMMY'S HOUSE in 2003 when she GOT MARRIED.

            And usually, I don't like to get all snarky on boards since "most" people try to be friendly, helpful and kind, but I KNEW someone with an agenda would hop on here and try to cast aspertions based on the fact THEY believe their personal feelings should matter in any court decisions.

            shiny, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before but I believe you have made your feelings obvious in that you give advice based on what you "think" should be done rather than what the law actually says. Apparently, you don't understand that the filing of BK is a BUSINESS decision and should be handled accordingly.

            And maybe your math skills aren't as strong as they should be but this JUDGMENT has been paid, already, for six years. My becoming DISABLED and unable to work any longer has kind of hindered my ability to earn a paycheck. Sorry my being in a wheelchair on my bad days offends your sensibilities so much... Believe me, I'd LOVE to earn the paycheck I was earning before I became ill. I'd love to bring home that $6000 a month I was making BEFORE I got sick.

            As upset as you are over how MY being sick is causing an alcoholic, abusive mother (who broke her son's leg and to prevent us from finding this out denied visitation for six years) to lose her $250 a month, imagine how I feel, me being the one who can't walk any longer. Wow, what a narcissist you are... I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis at the age of 40 and it wasn't long after that I was in a wheelchair since it took doctors so long to figure out what was wrong with me. When I was still working and we had sizeable savings, we offered the witch a lump sum payout of 50 cents on the dollar several years ago. She flat out refused it, the whole $12,000.00, saying she felt "...her husband should be supporting her." Uh, they'd been divorced since 1992 when she filed so she could live with her drug addicted boyfriend who subsequently went to prison for dealing out of her home, in front of the kids.

            So, uh, yeah, don't go away mad, just go away, and let me use these boards for the way they were intended to be used... To seek out advice from those who are going through the same things I am going through, without judging.

            Still searching for advice from someone who doesn't have an agenda...
            Last edited by NancyLou; 03-03-2009, 04:56 PM. Reason: for clarity

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by NancyLou View Post
              It is not an order for child support any longer... It is an Order for JUDGMENT. To put it in words you can understand... IT'S NOT A CHILD SUPPORT ORDER but an order allowing CSE to collect as the COLLECTION AGENCY. The Original Creditor is his ex-wife. The youngest child is EMANCIPATED... What emancipated means is SHE REACHED THE AGE OF MAJORITY PER COLORADO LAW. The ORDER FOR JUDGMENT was entered AFTER the youngest child MOVED OUT OF MOMMY'S HOUSE in 2003 when she GOT MARRIED.

              And usually, I don't like to get all snarky on boards since "most" people try to be friendly, helpful and kind, but I KNEW someone with an agenda would hop on here and try to cast aspertions based on the fact THEY believe their personal feelings should matter in any court decisions.

              shiny, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before but I believe you have made your feelings obvious in that you give advice based on what you "think" should be done rather than what the law actually says. Apparently, you don't understand that the filing of BK is a BUSINESS decision and should be handled accordingly.

              And maybe your math skills aren't as strong as they should be but this JUDGMENT has been paid, already, for six years. My becoming DISABLED and unable to work any longer has kind of hindered my ability to earn a paycheck. Sorry my being in a wheelchair on my bad days offends your sensibilities so much... Believe me, I'd LOVE to earn the paycheck I was earning before I became ill. I'd love to bring home that $6000 a month I was making BEFORE I got sick.

              As upset as you are over how MY being sick is causing an alcoholic, abusive mother (who broke her son's leg and to prevent us from finding this out denied visitation for six years) to lose her $250 a month, imagine how I feel, me being the one who can't walk any longer. Wow, what a narcissist you are... I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis at the age of 40 and it wasn't long after that I was in a wheelchair since it took doctors so long to figure out what was wrong with me. When I was still working and we had sizeable savings, we offered the witch a lump sum payout of 50 cents on the dollar several years ago. She flat out refused it, the whole $12,000.00, saying she felt "...her husband should be supporting her." Uh, they'd been divorced since 1992 when she filed so she could live with her drug addicted boyfriend who subsequently went to prison for dealing out of her home, in front of the kids.

              So, uh, yeah, don't go away mad, just go away, and let me use these boards for the way they were intended to be used... To seek out advice from those who are going through the same things I am going through, without judging.

              Still searching for advice from someone who doesn't have an agenda...
              Whew...as I said before, I was on the receiving end of an angsty ex-wife. I was the second wife, and now I'm the soon to be ex second wife. I'm sorry for your illness, but the law is the law as was pointed out to me when I married a man with a child from a previous marriage and we paid 30% of my husbands income to a meth addict each month. We all have problems, ya know? My only "agenda" is to point out an order for child support and/or child support arrearages regardless of the age of the "child" is a JUDGMENT.

              Comment


                #8
                Me thinks someone needs professional counseling.

                I saw no agenda in shiny's post. It was reasoned and completely unemotional.

                I spent nearly 22 years paying support to a crazed ex-wife. The day I made the final payment was a day of celebration!
                Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                Comment


                  #9
                  Subscribed, if only for the drama..
                  And yes, I have a secret agenda, at least that what the voices keep telling me. Shhhh, the black helicopters are coming.
                  1/15/10 Filed ch7 2/18/10 314 meeting
                  2/22/10 Report of No Distribution
                  4/20/10 Discharged 5/20/10 Closed!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by pcn View Post
                    Subscribed, if only for the drama..
                    And yes, I have a secret agenda, at least that what the voices keep telling me. Shhhh, the black helicopters are coming.


                    ....to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time!
                    Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by NancyLou View Post
                      So, uh, yeah, don't go away mad, just go away, and let me use these boards for the way they were intended to be used... To seek out advice from those who are going through the same things I am going through, without judging.

                      Still searching for advice from someone who doesn't have an agenda...
                      Your attitude is not going to get you much help. I don't see any judgement in Shiny's posts. Shiny was simply trying to answer your questions. You didn't like the answers you got and immediately assumed that Shiny has an agenda.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        If it is child support, in any way related to child support, it is non-dischargeable, doesn't really matter how it is memorialized or if the kids are grown.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I believe a judgement FROM Child support, is still considered child support and non-dischargeable no matter when it was entered. Just because the judgement was AFTER the child came of age doesn't negate the responsibility of the child support debt.

                          Join the club on dealing with crazy drug dealing ex's who are only out for the money and misery they can cause. I finally got over my 18 year ordeal. Mine was on welfare that I had to pay back, and it took me 14 years to do it at 10% interest.

                          Getting so upset all the time and feeling sorry for yourself, even if justified, will only cause you more grief and future heartache. Take it from someone who has been there, done that, it won't work for you. Forgiveness as best you can, is the only way to go for long term happiness.

                          BTW, being rude to people on this board who are being honest with you is not right.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Shiny is very knowlegable about judgments and child support obligations not only from personal experience as she indicated, but also by virtue of her profession. It is tempting to ignore the advise of others if it is not what we want to hear...but, not wise.
                            Filed CH 7 9/30/2008
                            Discharged Jan 5, 2009! Closed Jan 18, 2009

                            I am not an attorney. None of my advice is legal advice in any way..

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Before any one goes on a rant...
                              Still searching for advice from someone who doesn't have an agenda...
                              Oh. My. Gosh. Someone is projecting.

                              Comment

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