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Unmarried, living together - both incomes count?

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    #1

    Unmarried, living together - both incomes count?

    Here's the scoop: I am going to move in with my boyfriend in the next month or so. I am fresh out of a ch. 7, debt free, and I intend to stay that way. He owns his home (with a mortgage), a car (with a balance) and has tens of thousands of dollars in credit card and home repair debt. If (and it's a big "if") he declares bankruptcy, he'd be a ch. 13 due to his income and the fact that he has no dependents.

    I plan on paying rent to him and we'll probably split groceries, but we are NOT combining bank accounts or otherwise combining financial debts/assets.

    My question: Would my income be counted as "household income" even though we are not married? How about the rent I pay to him? I assume that would be considered income but I hope the rest of my salary would not be. It's not his - I am trying to save for my children's education and trying to build a nice financial buffer for the bumps down the road. I can afford to pay him rent but I really can't afford to help pay down his debt.

    Your thoughts?
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    #2
    Originally posted by wonkettegirl View Post
    Here's the scoop: I am going to move in with my boyfriend in the next month or so. I am fresh out of a ch. 7, debt free, and I intend to stay that way. He owns his home (with a mortgage), a car (with a balance) and has tens of thousands of dollars in credit card and home repair debt. If (and it's a big "if") he declares bankruptcy, he'd be a ch. 13 due to his income and the fact that he has no dependents.

    I plan on paying rent to him and we'll probably split groceries, but we are NOT combining bank accounts or otherwise combining financial debts/assets.

    My question: Would my income be counted as "household income" even though we are not married? How about the rent I pay to him? I assume that would be considered income but I hope the rest of my salary would not be. It's not his - I am trying to save for my children's education and trying to build a nice financial buffer for the bumps down the road. I can afford to pay him rent but I really can't afford to help pay down his debt.

    Your thoughts?

    You are household income on his filing.
    Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

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      #3
      But I thought even spouses could file separately in some states - it doesn't seem right that we are purposely NOT combining income, yet my income would count. If we were platonic roommates would my income count? The rent I pay, sure, but all of my income? Now I'm on a rant. Why would the romantic/sexual relationship of the roommate be the deciding factor? While spouses may have a legal obligation to support each other, unmarried persons do not. I don't understand it, if Ohiofiler is correct.

      Comment

        #4
        Originally posted by wonkettegirl View Post
        But I thought even spouses could file separately in some states - it doesn't seem right that we are purposely NOT combining income, yet my income would count. If we were platonic roommates would my income count? The rent I pay, sure, but all of my income? Now I'm on a rant. Why would the romantic/sexual relationship of the roommate be the deciding factor? While spouses may have a legal obligation to support each other, unmarried persons do not. I don't understand it, if Ohiofiler is correct.

        The courts look at "household income". They don't care which bed in the house you sleep in. You'd have a difficult time proving you merely rent a room from him and your attempt to prove so is possibly fraudulent. I wouldn't risk it personally.
        Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

        Comment

          #5
          Well, I filed alone, but am married. We had to use the household income; however, my husband and I have all of our finances separate.

          The attorney 'expensed' out everything but his actual contribution to the household. Natually I had to prove it with bank statements for 2 yrs, cc statements for 3 yrs, tax returns for 4 yrs, real estate transactions for 10 yrs etc., etc. The UST took a look too as we were over median income. BUT, after the second 341 (the first was continued so they had more time to review my nearly 2000 pages of documentation) I was declared, rightfully, a no asset CH 7 and then discharged.

          But they must see the entire household income/expenses. No way around that.
          Filed CH 7 9/30/2008
          Discharged Jan 5, 2009! Closed Jan 18, 2009
          I am not an attorney. None of my advice is legal advice in any way..

          Comment

            #6
            That makes a lot more sense. He does get (or will get) rent every month and a contribution toward some household expenses, so those should count. But what he doesn't get shouldn't count. We don't want to defraud anyone, but I don't want my entire income being attributed to him when teh reality is quite different. Thanks!

            Comment

              #7
              Make sure he has a good attorney for this. My attorney really knew what he was doing and of course his philosophy was bury the Trustee in paperwork...seems to have worked out. But you need a strong attorney - not one of those that doesn't follow through. Good luck! I'm sure, with your guidence, you will get it worked out.
              Filed CH 7 9/30/2008
              Discharged Jan 5, 2009! Closed Jan 18, 2009
              I am not an attorney. None of my advice is legal advice in any way..

              Comment

                #8
                No it won't count...


                Cash is king
                The essence of freedom is the proper limitation of Government

                Comment

                  #9
                  I'm agreeing with banca rotta. Especially the "cash is king" part.

                  Fact is, IMHO--you're not married, you're not on his deed, nor his mortgage, and you are NOT responsible for his debts.
                  Marriage is a contract, a mortgage is a contract...loans are contracts...

                  Same as if you lived with him for a year and split up--you have no rights to his home, nor his income--there's no question about this until you are married.

                  It seems your bills are your bills, and his are his, and until you ARE ACTUALLY MARRIED you should NEVER COMBINE THEM.
                  Just like neither of you will be claiming the other's income for IRS tax purposes, or the other as a dependent etc.

                  IMHO, you aren't under any legal obligation to have your income counted along with his. Even if your state allowed for "common law" marriges--you had not lived with him long enough.

                  The biggest issue here seems to be some type of technicality. I'm not positive of exactly what the technicality is though.

                  Perhaps your wording of you paying him rent...If you pay him rent--technically he should claim it as income. because "If" he files BK they will look at his bank statements...if they see a check from you every month, then they will look into it.


                  If the two of you want to contibute to each others expenses, be creative.

                  In your case, because you are NOT married, it is little more than a roommate agreement...regardless of which room you sleep in.

                  And yes, CASH IS KING ...not checks, not balance transfers directly from your account to his...not shared accounts...and Keep it all seperate, keep it all cash.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    The means test requires you include:

                    regular contributions to the debtor's household expenses

                    I believe if you are co-habitating the court will look at this line for income.
                    Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Ohiofiler, yes, I understand that. The forms ask for "debtor's income," "spouse's income," and "other contributions to household expenses." That's where my rent comes in. We are not going to lie, we are not trying to defraud anyone. Out of my rent, he will be paying the utility bills and we're going to just kind of split the grocery bills and other incidentals. So that money wouldn't count unless he was going to count me as a dependent or something - he'll be covering his costs and I'll be covering mine.

                      If we go down the road to a bankruptcy, I'll ask our lawyer. He is very smart, is a trustee for the district, and knows what other trustees will look for.

                      Thanks for all your responses!

                      Comment

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