Can I stop paying my HOA fees?

[BillyRip]

I'm going to walk away from this condo no matter what so can I stop paying these thieves $165 a mo?

[JRScott]

I believe you still have to pay that until discharge.

[fltoo]

I stopped paying my condo fees of 350. per month when I stopped paying the mortgage in Sept. 07.

Foreclosure is still pending, no sale date yet. So, condo fees still accruing.

I included the fees in the BK.

Now that I think about it, I wonder what happens to the fees that are still accruing after my filing. Hopefully, they are included.

Anyone know?

[DivorceRuinedMe]

I'm in the thick of this problem right now. I stopped paying my HOA dues when I left the house in 2007. It was only $425 but at the time, I didn't have the money to pay. I filed C7 in 11/07. The house was included in the bankruptcy.

I was served about 4 or 5 months ago b/c the HOA decided to sue me for that money even though the house was included in the bankruptcy. My lawyer said she's NEVER seen this happen before. She said that HOAs are getting more daring now b/c of all of the money they are losing to the foreclosure crisis.

I filed an answer with the court that I included the house in the bankruptcy and that I shouldn't be liable for the dues. I have not heard anything about it since then and I'm not even sure where to go to see if the case was decided. I figure no news is good news. If it ends up where I need my lawyer again b/c it didn't go my way, she said to call her.

So....I think I would talk to your lawyer (if you have one) before you stop paying and see what he/she says first.

[justbroke]

You are responsible for all HOA dues and fees. These are the only exceptions;

• You sold the home, at which time all fees are settled during closing. You are not responsible for any fees after the closing date.
• You filed Bankruptcy, but surrendered your home. All fees and dues are your responsibility from the time you filed Bankruptcy until the time the deed was modified!
• You filed Bankruptcy, but kept your home. All fees and dues are your responsibility. You cannot discharge HOA fees. 11 USC 523(16). Therefore, you must pay the fees or be subject to standard collection tactics, including but not limited to foreclosure.

I'm going to walk away from this condo no matter what so can I stop paying these thieves $165 a mo?

No. You must pay until the deed changes hands.

Now that I think about it, I wonder what happens to the fees that are still accruing after my filing. Hopefully, they are included. Anyone know?

See above. You are responsible from the day you filed. This is regardless of who owns the home after the deed changes. You are responsible from the day of filing for Bankruptcy, until the day the deed changes hands.

Okay, so now that I wrote that, and what I wrote is what the rules are.... some Banks have paid all HOA fees when foreclosing upon the home. However, there are banks that are smart and won't pay the HOA fees and you are responsible for them.

[BillyRip]

Thanks again JB! Ever think of a second career?

You are responsible for all HOA dues and fees. These are the only exceptions;

• You sold the home, at which time all fees are settled during closing. You are not responsible for any fees after the closing date.
• You filed Bankruptcy, but surrendered your home. All fees and dues are your responsibility from the time you filed Bankruptcy until the time the deed was modified!
• You filed Bankruptcy, but kept your home. All fees and dues are your responsibility. You cannot discharge HOA fees. 11 USC 523(16). Therefore, you must pay the fees or be subject to standard collection tactics, including but not limited to foreclosure.

No. You must pay until the deed changes hands.

See above. You are responsible from the day you filed. This is regardless of who owns the home after the deed changes. You are responsible from the day of filing for Bankruptcy, until the day the deed changes hands.

[justbroke]

Thanks again JB! Ever think of a second career?

Yeah, but I'd be the subject of a variety of jokes, including, but not limited to, how I found my law school on a matchbook cover. Or, some other joke about attending law school at night.

[jribe]

I'm going to walk away from this condo no matter what so can I stop paying these thieves $165 a mo?

if you look through you HOA contract- most say they are non-dischargeable in BK. I believe you would still owe the debt. You should check with an area attorney to be sure.

[fltoo]

So, to understand this correctly, the fees before BK filing are discharged, but after filing date, they once again become the responsibility of the owner?

I know they can put a lien on the property for the fees. Wonder if they can get a personal judgment against you?

Still though, if you stop paying the condo fees, and the bank sells the property, the bank or new owner has to settle the fees before the property transfer. A transfer cannot take place with any clouds on the title.

Friend just short saled two properties and I know she hadn't been paying the assoc dues. I will ask her to pull the HUDs and see who paid the outstanding fees.

[StartingOver08]

fltoo, there is a new law that just was passed effective July 1, 2008 that changes who the HOA and condo associations can go after in the case of foreclosure. I will look it up and post it as soon as I find it - but basically it says the owner is responsible until the deed transfers to the bank. If there are outstanding fees by the time the bank takes the property over, the HOA or Condo Assn can go after the previous owner (the one that lost the property) or make the bank pay. But the bank now is limited to 12 months of fees.

I 'assume' that the banks had that provision written in the law because it never was there before.

Ok. Did not find that law yet...but found an attorney article commenting on it, see below:

Several people who are contemplating voluntary foreclosure have asked me whether they should continue paying their homeowner or condominium dues during the foreclosure process. I have recommended that homeowners stop paying homeowner dues if they are voluntarily surrendering their homes to their mortgage lender. I believed that the homeowners due would be paid by the party who ultimately purchases the property from the mortgage lender in order to clear the HOA’s lien on the property. I have changed my opinion after another attorney pointed out a Florida statute that may impose personal liability for homeowner’s dues. Florida Statute 718.116(1)(a) states that homeowners are personally liable for assessments by a condominium association. Florida Statute 720.3085 states that homeowners are personally liable for assessments by a homeowners association.


I do not practice law in the area of homeowner association law. I am unaware of any condo or homeowner association which has pursued a judgment against a former owner for unpaid assessments or dues after the unit has gone through the foreclosure process. I am concerned about this liability because the condo and homeowner statutes provide for awards of attorneys fees to the association’s lawyers for their collection of unpaid dues and assessments. A relatively small association debt could become a substantial judgment when potential attorneys fees are included. Therefore, the more conservative strategy for someone anticipating foreclosure is to continue paying homeowner’s association dues through the date of sale.

Real estate taxes are different. Tax liability is usually much greater than the amount of association dues, and I am unaware of laws permitting the government to pursue personal liability for unpaid property taxes. I continue to recommend that people who are voluntarily surrendering properties to their mortgage lender through foreclosure not pay real estate tax bills.

[truckerswife]

As far as a "contract" I never signed one from the Home Owners Association. We are almost a year behind on dues. We have moved out of the condo. A few months ago, when we were getting ready to move, the associate manager stopped by. He asked if we were going to be able to pay anything. My husband told him no and that we were getting ready to move and the house was going to end up in foreclosure. The manager said "I haven't received notice". Hubby told him he would eventually. We never heard anything else from him. He just said okay and walked away. I know that in the past we had received notices from the Association threatening to foreclose. When that didn't work they were threatening to turn off the water. Last year, I tried to catch up the past due fees in February the manager told me not to worry about they wrote them off.

[fltoo]

Thank you Starting Over.

That is exactly what I was looking for.

I checked with gf that did the two short sales. The lender ended up paying the fees and unpaid prop taxes in order to pass unclouded title.

[justbroke]

I checked with gf that did the two short sales. The lender ended up paying the fees and unpaid prop taxes in order to pass unclouded title.

Well, even though Florida law sgtates that, you asked a question under Bankruptcy Law. In BK Law, you cannot discharge HOA fees and assessments (period).

The Florida law would work in a non-bankruptcy status and is basically how it works outside of bankruptcy.

As you have just learned and as I posted earlier, many Banks still pay the HOA fees and all taxes to get a clean title.

As for truckerswife, your HOA Rider is part of the mortgage documentation you signed. The HOA Rider is slipped in there and most people don't know that they signed it. That is, that you more than likely signed it when closing your loan. This is specifically why lenders ask if you are in a PUD or PUC or other planned community. They usually ask if you're in a Condo or Homeowner's Association. Generally, they find this out from the title agent anyhow, but they like to know up front.

[relief13035]

I stopped paying HOA fees in Oct. on both of the condos we are surrendering.

Funny - our HOA fees were $165 too. LOL - maybe in the same place as BillyRip. Now wouldn't that be a riot.

[limage]

I am planning on filing a Ch 7 at the end of Feb/beginning of March. I will be surrenering my condo. My once 360k condo is now worth less than 180k, but my taxes are 4k a year and my association fee is $550! I wish I could do a mortgage modification, but I can't even afford the taxes and HOA!

I have been paying my association fee as recommended by my attorney.

Florida (thanks Florida- I can't wait to leave this f***ing state!) just passed a law requiring condo owners to purchase hazard, liability and assessment insurance. If not paid by January 30, the association will charge for it and pass it on as an assessment. This policy will cost me 2000. Yep, 2000- because I would be forced to get flood insurance too. I don't have it. At this point I just don't care anymore. I'm tired of getting financially raped by everyone.

My attorney told me to ignore any assessment and blow off the insurance, because I will be surrendering the home before the can file the assessment. I hope he is right!