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Means test expert help needed please!!!

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    #1

    Means test expert help needed please!!!

    I have went on several times to the Legal Consumer website to try to see for myself if I pass the means test or not. I get soo confused and Dont know where to put some of my $ amounts. Can anyone help????

    I am going to check with attorney but the first one didn't even look at seven as an option.

    Here is my info

    household= 2- me and my daughter
    Live in Indiana
    Child support= 170.00 per week= 680 per month
    Gross Income= 2034.08x 2= 4068.16 per month
    Tax deductions= 469.53 x2 = 939.06 per month

    FSA contribution= 23.08 x2= 46.16 per month
    Life Insurance= 7.38 x2= 14.76 per month
    Medical Insurance= 19.38x2= 38.76 per month
    401K Contri= 50x2=100.00 per month

    Min Payment Balance
    Sallie Mae- School Loan 165.24 $10,000.00
    Chase- Auto Loan 358.56 $18,247.00
    Wells Fargo- Mortgage 740.57 $74,000.00
    Country Wide- 2nd Mortgage 415.71 $34,000.00
    American General- Furnace- Secured debt 234.00 $7,776.76
    Capital One- Credit card 99.00 $3,211.19
    Chase Credit card 35.00 $1,400.00
    HSBC- Mastercard 15.00 $1,400.00
    Kohls 20.00 $375.00
    Paypal 10.00 $27.80
    Forum 60.00 $1,500.00
    Sears 10.00 $350.00
    Victoria Secret 10.00 $80.05
    Cingular 140.00 $0.00
    Citizens Gas 100.00 $0.00
    Cable/phone/internet 137.45 $0.00
    IPL- Light Bill 78.71 $0.00
    Water company 50.00 $0.00
    Hartford- IRA 50.00 $0.00
    Daughters Lunch$50/allowance$50 100.00
    Ballys 41.15 $300.00
    Gas 4x25 100.00
    Grocery 4x75 300.00
    Tennis 50.00
    Trainer 40.00
    Total Expenses 3,360.39


    Total Income-Expenses W/Child Support 245.61 $160,367.80
    Tags: None
    #2
    It looks VERY borderline to me between Chapter 7 and 13. I ran it through the means test on Best Case and it comes up with you being over by $10.56 a month. VERY CLOSE. I would make an appointment and have a free consult with some local attorneys. Bring the specifics with you and they should be able to determine if you qualify at the initial consult.

    Comment

      #3
      So just to make sure that I am understanding it all correctly...If (I know it is if) I qualify for ch 7 then I could walk away from everything and not have to pay anything back. If I do ch 13 then I would have to pay back the unsecured debt back but would be free from the 1st & second mortgage and maybe the furnace.

      Comment

        #4
        Do you plan on keeping the house? If you don't then you don't qualify for Chapter 7 because I included the debt for the furnace as one that you would reaffirm considering it is secured by something that is attached to the house. It looks as if you will be a Chapter 13.

        Like I said, go in for a consult with an attorney and talk about your options. It won't cost you anything and it will give you the opportunity to run through a few scenerios.

        Comment

          #5
          I do not want to keep the house. I have 2 more appointments with attorneys so hopefully they will be not as rushed as the other one was. He made me feel like I was taking up too much time and didn't even run the #'s to see if I would qualify for ch 7. So I will see how the other 2 are or just keep looking until I find one that i feel comfortable with.

          Comment

            #6
            Exactly, you want an atty that cares about your situation. Let us know how it turns out and keep studying the exemptions etc!!
            Filed C7 Aug 31 2008
            341 Oct 8 2008
            Discharged Dec 9 2008

            Comment

              #7
              Just a comment about some of your math. Child Support @ 170.00/Wk x 52Wk=8840/12=$737 per Month (4 weeks does not equal 1 month, there are 13 4 week periods in a year).

              Also if you are paid on the 1st and the 15th(or twice per month) your income is correct. If you're paid every 2 weeks, you need to convert your monthly income as above.

              Comment

                #8
                good point... I get paid every 2 weeks. So the income monthly would be higher. I didnt think of that.

                Comment

                  #9
                  404 | Internal Revenue Service
                  http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96543,00.html
                  404


                  These are the allowable expenses used by the IRS and apply to bankruptcy cases as well. I don't think you include your payments for anything you're going to have discharged.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by DoinItRight View Post
                    http://www.irs.gov/individuals/artic...=96543,00.html

                    These are the allowable expenses used by the IRS and apply to bankruptcy cases as well. I don't think you include your payments for anything you're going to have discharged.
                    Actually, you should use the U.S. Trustee Program's numbers. They are based on the IRS numbers and actually breakdown certain numbers as required by the BAPCPA of 2005.

                    Means Testing
                    http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/meanstesting.htm
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                    Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                      Actually, you should use the U.S. Trustee Program's numbers. They are based on the IRS numbers and actually breakdown certain numbers as required by the BAPCPA of 2005.

                      http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/meanstesting.htm
                      \
                      If anyone wants to help me with my means test feel free to message me. I cannot figure it out either..So anything that we are discharging we do not count. Cause we are letting everything go

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by okiemom2008 View Post
                        \
                        If anyone wants to help me with my means test feel free to message me. I cannot figure it out either..So anything that we are discharging we do not count. Cause we are letting everything go
                        Use the Means Test at Legal Consumer's website. They have up to date numbers from the US Trustee's limits (based on the IRS Allowable Limits) built in.

                        That way, you can run different scenarios.

                        Bankruptcy by Zip Code
                        http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/
                        Learn how bankruptcy works where you live! Learn how to file bankruptcy in your local federal district bankruptcy court, complete the Bankruptcy Means Test for your county, and use your State Bankruptcy Exemption Laws to protect your property if you file. And connect with local bankruptcy attorneys who can help.
                        Last edited by justbroke; 12-22-2008, 01:41 PM.
                        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                        Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                          Use the Means Test at Legal Consumer's website. They have up to date numbers from the US Trustee's limits (based on the IRS Allowable Limits) built in.

                          That way, you can run different scenarios.
                          what would I use as my income since it varies since i make 100% commission? And self employed in June, July August as a tool guy.(snap on tools) I brought home probably 1000 a day but it all went back into re-ordering tools automatically(by computer system)

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by okiemom2008 View Post
                            what would I use as my income since it varies since i make 100% commission? And self employed in June, July August as a tool guy.(snap on tools) I brought home probably 1000 a day but it all went back into re-ordering tools automatically(by computer system)
                            You must use a 6 month average.

                            If it's a business, then you take your gross income and subtract your costs (costs of goods sold and other expenses), to reach your net income. use the net business income when you have a business.

                            Bankruptcy by Zip Code
                            http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/
                            Learn how bankruptcy works where you live! Learn how to file bankruptcy in your local federal district bankruptcy court, complete the Bankruptcy Means Test for your county, and use your State Bankruptcy Exemption Laws to protect your property if you file. And connect with local bankruptcy attorneys who can help.
                            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                            Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                              You must use a 6 month average.

                              If it's a business, then you take your gross income and subtract your costs (costs of goods sold and other expenses), to reach your net income. use the net business income when you have a business.

                              http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/
                              So for example say I made
                              July 2000
                              August 2000
                              September 2000
                              October 6000
                              Nov 4500
                              Dec 5000
                              total=21,500 which is under the 27k texas allows..so I would be a chapter 7 automatically?

                              And file in mid January, would I use Januarys income also or is the month prior to filing considered the 6th month?

                              Comment

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