Can the trustee say no

[daytimer69@hotm]

I was wondering, if you file for bk...can the court or trustee say "NO" you cannot file? You owe too much in cc debt? You make too much money?

[Tbornetun]

If you make too much money you can't file Ch 7, if you have too much debt you may not be able to file Ch 13. It would be something that is determined prior to filing so the trustee wouldn't even be involved in that decision.

[daytimer69@hotm]

Thanks, we have a lot of medical bills and my husband has been charging a lot of credit card debt on household items and electronics and I feel he will drain our savings before summer pf 09 hits and then we will need to file. Any thoughts or comments

[justbroke]

I was wondering, if you file for bk...can the court or trustee say "NO" you cannot file? You owe too much in cc debt? You make too much money?

There are grounds under which you can't file a Chapter 7 or Chapter 13. First, if you have the means to fund a Chapter 13, the Trustee will force you to Convert to a different Chapter (13 or 11) or dismiss your case.

If you file a Chapter 13, there are certain Debt Limits that you must meet. You can't have more than $336,900 in unsecured debt and about $1,010,650 in secured debt. Otherwise you can't file a Chapter 13 either.

You also can't file a Chapter 13, if you can't "technically" fund it. Some people are actually left in the purgatory between Chapter 7 and Chapter 13... and it's frustrating!!! Usually, just waiting a few months of no income, or increased income, fixed that.

Then there's always Chapter 11 Reorganization which is what I call a Chapter 13 on Crack. It's complex, expensive, shouldn't even dream about doing it without a lawyer, expensive, lots of reporting, debtor in possession issues, creditors who get to vote, and so on.

So, the answer is... yes.

[justbroke]

Thanks, we have a lot of medical bills and my husband has been charging a lot of credit card debt on household items and electronics and I feel he will drain our savings before summer pf 09 hits and then we will need to file. Any thoughts or comments

if you are filing in June, you probably need to stop spending on your credit cards... and possibly stop paying them too.

It's all in the timing.

[daytimer69@hotm]

I am not sure on the time frame or even if we will file . I am trying to prepare myself fpr the worse. we also own rental property without paying tenants and I know we will foreclose on them in the near future if we cannot get good tenants

Him on so much medication is like a loose cannon, if he decides to purchase something...wham, its done on credit

[Bandit]

a trustee can make a motion for dismissal due to fraud, paperwork being wrong, previous filing & whatnot.... that is a higher card than just saying no.

[banca rotta]

I am not sure on the time frame or even if we will file . I am trying to prepare myself fpr the worse. we also own rental property without paying tenants and I know we will foreclose on them in the near future if we cannot get good tenants

Him on so much medication is like a loose cannon, if he decides to purchase something...wham, its done on credit

It's good you are coming here before filing. You should research this for at least six months before you even think about filing.

You are obviously very nervous and have a lot of questions. You don't want to be wrong. Sometimes there are no "do-overs" and you will have to live with what you did like file on fraud debts that may survive a bankruptcy.

Research this forum, go get some books, go here for some basic tips http://www.bankruptcyaction.com

[daytimer69@hotm]

I am very nervous, I do not want my husband going to jail for fraud. I told him about this site and he just told me he opened a dell computer account and charge $3000 worth of computer stuff. I need a drink..........

[Tbornetun]

Hit him over the head with a club! The man is out of control.

[daytimer69@hotm]

I wish I could just hit him over the head. I tell you, since he has been on medication, it is like he has no conscience and forgets what he did yesterday

[Bandit]

I wish I could just hit him over the head. I tell you, since he has been on medication, it is like he has no conscience and forgets what he did yesterday

I would bet he is having a hard time dealing with reality of what is happening & the emotions that go with it are being covered up by buying new shiny things as a temporary help.
I do believe that certain meds make people act different.

You are going to have to educate him real fast & get mad because he is making big mistakes & playing too risky.

[kornellred]

If you definitely plan on filing for bankruptcy - AND - you consciously and willfully keep using credit cards just because you can, you are committing fraud - no two ways about it.

If you definitely plan on filing for bankruptcy- AND - you stop using your credit cards - you are not committing fraud.

There is no possible way that your attorney, the trustee, or the BK courts can ever prove that you intended to file for bankruptcy while using your credit cards - unless you tell them, or - you do something really stupid like try to hide or transfer assets.

There is a protocol established defining the timing behind the cessation of unsecured credit usage and the date of filing. When adhered to (and BK attorneys will insist upon it) the possible fraud intent is a non-issue.

Other than that, the qualifications for either Chapter 7 or Chapter 13 are firmly established. No attorney or trustee can prevent you from filing.

[Stilltheone]

If you definitely plan on filing for bankruptcy - AND - you consciously and willfully keep using credit cards just because you can, you are committing fraud - no two ways about it.

If you definitely plan on filing for bankruptcy- AND - you stop using your credit cards - you are not committing fraud.

There is no possible way that your attorney, the trustee, or the BK courts can ever prove that you intended to file for bankruptcy while using your credit cards - unless you tell them, or - you do something really stupid like try to hide or transfer assets.
There is a protocol established defining the timing behind the cessation of unsecured credit usage and the date of filing. When adhered to (and BK attorneys will insist upon it) the possible fraud intent is a non-issue.

Other than that, the qualifications for either Chapter 7 or Chapter 13 are firmly established. No attorney or trustee can prevent you from filing.

Exactly. I saw on another thread that people were telling her her husband will "go to jail". How do the courts PROVE that it's fraud? Because she's "thinking" about bankruptcy?

[justbroke]

Exactly. I saw on another thread that people were telling her her husband will "go to jail". How do the courts PROVE that it's fraud? Because she's "thinking" about bankruptcy?

Hopefully no one said -- on this board -- that he'd go to jail. I think the Original Poster actually wrote that, not someone else. I digress.

Anyhow, fraud is easy. You are technically insolvent within 90 days of filing or when you knew it, whichever comes first. However, the technical line-in-the-sand seems to be that 90 days prior to filing. If you're out charging diamond rings and other luxuries right before filing (even 30 days before filing), then it's fraud by definition. Pretty easy to prove.

What they can't prove, is if you knew a year before and spent like crazy up until 6 months prior to filing. That you made a few payments along the way and also stopped paying 6 months prior to filing. That's almost impossible to prove that you ran up the cards on purpose. No one will come after you for that.

Again, the magic part is the technically insolvent and most creditors use that 90 days prior to filing as the benchmark. It's much easier to prove within the 90 days because of what caselaw suggests.