not a question; just a comment...

[applecake]

First of all, I want to make it clear that me & DH take 100% responsibility for getting ourselves into this mess. No one held a gun to our heads and forced us to incur debt (whether is was "stupid debt" or "business debt" or whatever). Our lives are the sum of the choices we make, I believe that. BUT with that being said.........

How stupid does a loan company have to be, to offer me $15,000 on my $400/month part-time income??? For this same company to give us a $10,000 loan using our $4000 car as collateral? For another company, when we have trouble paying on one personal loan with them, to offer us MORE money and roll our first loan into that one?

Just scratching my head here. I guess with all the interest they make, it's worth the risk of a BK? No wonder our whole economy is going down the drain. There's just not an infinite amount of money out there!!!

[Mi Bankruptcy]

It really does make you wonder.. It's kind of like offering a 15K credit card to a college student working only part time.

I am not slamming you.. However, I am curious how you planned on paying the debt? I guess I never tried to take out a debt unless I really thought I could pay it back.. It sounded good for 1 credit card, 2 credit card,3 credit card etc... until the min payments ate up all my monthly income + medical bills.

[HHM]

I like how the tone here is that you are blamming the credit card companies for YOUR USE of credit.

Making something available and actually using it are two different things. Who is really the responsible party for a person going into debt. Bottom-line, end of the day, the debtor who decided to use a credit card.

We can all moan about the credit card companies, easy avialability of credit etc, but it is the PERSON who decides to use a credit card that puts themself into debt.

[Mi Bankruptcy]

I like how the tone here is that you are blamming the credit card companies for YOUR USE of credit.

Making something available and actually using it are two different things. Who is really the responsible party for a person going into debt. Bottom-line, end of the day, the debtor who decided to use a credit card.

We can all moan about the credit card companies, easy avialability of credit etc, but it is the PERSON who decides to use a credit card that puts themself into debt.

There are so many threads about this..It boils down that both are responsible. Be it predatory lending or ignorance on the consumer side.

BTW.. It not predatory lending until someone with significant power has experienced some of the lending practices and decides to blow the whistle and bring it to the attention of congress.

[woeisme]

I agree with HHM that the person who used the card puts themself in debt.

I think the point of the original post is different though. The point is that the credit card companies are taking extreme financial risks in the process. Their risky practices of loaning excessive amounts of money to credit unworthy customers is now destroying the entire economy. Yes, debtors are to blame for taking advantage of these credit offers to get themselves in debt, but banks/credit card companies are the blame for risking the health of the longterm global economy in the hopes of making some fast short-term cash in the form of interest charges.

[howdidithappen]

Yes they make alot of money with their outrageous interest rates - be late on just one card and all your cards have interest hikes -even from different banks. And then add
their outrageous fees.

[applecake]

HHM, allow me to direct your attention to the entire first paragraph of my post. I am not blaming anyone but ourselves for our use of credit. My tone was not one of "moaning", just...marveling. I was only saying, I'm amazed that they even loaned us the money in the first place, based on our income and the debt load we already had. Irresponsible on both ends. BOTH ends. OK?

And MI, that is a totally fair question. I think when we took out the first one (there were three "big ones" related to the business), it was out of a feeling of total desperation. People (actual people, not companies) were breathing down our necks and we just did the only thing we could think of to get them paid. Actually, the first two loans we took out were simultaneous because we couldn't get the amount we needed from just one place. We planned on paying it by one or both of us getting a second job. What I didn't count on was that practically no one is hiring right now. The "second job" idea did not work out so well. By then we were about to get sued by two more people and took out the loan against the car to pay them. My next plan was to call a credit counseling agency, but much to my surprise, they couldn't really do anything for us. We were way too deep in over our heads. I called two different agencies (legitimate non-profit ones) and they BOTH suggested that I look into BK. I got mad at the first one for saying that, but when the second one said the same thing...

Add to all this, that about a month after we closed the business and incurred all this new debt, our long-time tenant informed us that he was buying a house of his own and moving out of our rental. OUCH. Couldn't have happened at a worse time. We had NO available money, not even $100, to fix it up to make it rent-able again, and no one to pay rent to cover the mortgage.

I hope all this makes a little more sense. I really truly did not mean to come across as a whiner!

[Mi Bankruptcy]

Thanks apple.. That makes sense. I have met several people that used credit/loans in desperation. Myself included. That is how several of my credit cards were used. I would never charge much until..like you experienced.. the perfect storm hit. Mine was a transmission, Furnace, Well, and fuel(propane & fuel oil) all in a period of 3 months.
This does not include which I used causally(not abused) before the perfect storm. Like you ..I took care of the problem now... then woulld figure out what to do next.

[wonkettegirl]

I actually feel sorry for my bank - they were good to me, took a reasonable chance on me, and we both got burned. I got stuck with a house post-divorce that I can neither afford to keep nor sell. I'm upside down on it, with a 2d mortgage taken out by me and the ex. If I only could have sold the house, I would have remained solvent, paid off all marital debt, downsized my home for a cozier one that I can afford on my own, and everything would have been fine.

But. I can't sell it. Nothing is moving in my neck of the woods, and this summer there were 4 houses for sale on my street alone; NONE of them received even an offer.

They weren't foolish, but optimistic - when we took out the 2d mortgage (loan consolidation, mostly), we had a balloon rate that everyone assumed would be easy to take care of, either with the sale of the home or with refi becuase, of course, the value of our home would only go up, right?

[dealingsdone]

First of all, I want to make it clear that me & DH take 100% responsibility for getting ourselves into this mess. No one held a gun to our heads and forced us to incur debt (whether is was "stupid debt" or "business debt" or whatever). Our lives are the sum of the choices we make, I believe that. BUT with that being said.........

How stupid does a loan company have to be, to offer me $15,000 on my $400/month part-time income??? For this same company to give us a $10,000 loan using our $4000 car as collateral? For another company, when we have trouble paying on one personal loan with them, to offer us MORE money and roll our first loan into that one?

Just scratching my head here. I guess with all the interest they make, it's worth the risk of a BK? No wonder our whole economy is going down the drain. There's just not an infinite amount of money out there!!!

Obviously the debter is ultimately the one who must take responsibility.

I am also amazed at the willingness of Credit cards to throw incredible amounts of money at me. I have been bankrupt before and have proven to be a degenerate gambler which is obvious if anyone bank representative were to examine my statements, yet they wanted to take a risk me? Without exaggeration, must say I must have paid them 20-30K in cash advance fees and other misc. charges in recent years, but in the end they are not going to make anything on me because now I am going belly up on them! They were gambling as much on me as I was at the casinos...In the end the casinos wound up with all the money!

[treehugger1]

I'm not convinced that it is the debtor's ultimate responsibility. Especially when it comes to unsecured debt. Unsecured loans are quite risky as we are all finding out; debtor AND creditor alike. In some sense, I also think that 0% down financing on new autos is also risky. Yet, the lenders continue to put these out there and folks continue to take them up on the offers. There's a lot of money floating out there with nothing other than credit scores and a few past paystubs to backup the original granting of the loan.

I believe we are seeing that it is the debtor's ultimate choice as to whether he/she will continue to pay, file BK, or just walk away.

There is a big disconnect between what we know we should do and the reality of what we actually do. I think this holds for both debtors and creditors.

While I accept the full responsibility for my own mess, I also shed no tears on the part of my creditors. It doesn't matter how I got here; but I am here. Now, I have to make some painful choices that others cannot make for me.

[BigJohn]

Stuff happens. It just happens.

I didn't fly any of the jets into the World Trade Center towers on September 11, 2001. I didn't start any of the wars our country is involved in but I can tell you, these events have changed my life and the 'life' of my business. They can take me out and hang me but it doesn't change the situation.

Stuff happens. It just happens.

[treehugger1]

"Stuff Happens." Absolutely! And until you have been in the shoes of one who has had such stuff happen to them, you cannot even begin to judge actions. Thanks BigJohn for reminding us that we are all here on this forum, looking for advice on our finanacial situations. How we got here (stuff happens) is not as relevant as to what our options might be to sort it all out.