Suicide and Financial Loss

[bmrigs]

Are I dont think they be so ignorant to use these type of words... or maybe they suffer from some type mental illness their self.

Nope, just Hub having a bad day...

[AngelinaCatHub]

LOL Im not talking about your typing or your spelling. Im talking about you calling a suicidal person a waste and a coward. I feel awkward that I have to point out your insensitivity when your the one usually that has to point out mine. LOL

[bmrigs]

I agree with you 100% so let met put my sword down,

[biggomez777]

To Lacy: While everyone on here is understanding of financial hardship, not everyone is going to be understanding of different, other "taboo" issues. Hell, I work in social services and have had co-workers tell me how they think it's stupid that people commit suicide w/o thinking that they could be talking to someone that's tried. The internet is an unforgiving place.

[liz417]

I don't think that a person that commits suicide is a "loser" or a "coward"...it saddens me to think that this *person* had to feel completely alone (regardless of the situation), feeling like they couldn't turn to ANYONE and this was their only way out....

[liz417]

Okay 'Hub...much better, I'll accept that....
For a moment, I thought you lost your compassion...

[AngelinaCat]

I have two grandfathers that committed suicide, so I am the granddaughter of residual downward familial fallout and *disgrace* from those days--1904 for one, 1930 for the other, Fortunately I have been graced with inheriting their letters, and yes they felt very much alone and unable to cope or confide in anyone else.

The paternal gfather went to Hot Springs AK to take the treatment for rheumatism and gout and was misdiagnosed with syphlis and treated for that with mercury rubs, mercury enemas, and drinking calomel which contains--HELLO--Mercury! He was poisoned to death and slit his throat with a straight razor. BTW the coffin arrived home on the train with the word 'suicide' painted all over it. My aunt, as a 4 year old, remembered that.

Maternal gfather had a gambling problem. He came from a fairly affluent family, but never, ever measured up to snuff in his father's eyes. He enlisted in the Navy, but Paterfamilias didn't like that--he wanted his son home working in the family business, and actually pulled strings to get him out. Mgfather married a lady with some money but, out of frustration, managed to gamble it away, resulting in my gmother having to go to work. He also had a history of depression, but no one knew it in those days. The fix was to pull all the teeth to let ‘the evil humors out’. When one can’t eat properly, then of course one is going to get sick. Then the stock market crash of 1929 happened. I don’t know what if any impact this may have had—Mgfather had been hospitalized for a while. Anyway, he blew his brains out with a pistol in 1930, in the bedroom of the house I grew up in.

Now, if anyone is concerned that ‘Hub is unfeeling or harsh about this sort of thing, let me assure you that he is not. He knows all of this history; we have read the letters together and cried, and feel very deeply for those that feel this alone and desperate.

[soleprop]

i'm glad this thread has the diversity of viewpoints that it does - and i'm really glad we're all here hashing out this really painful and serious issue. we all come from so many personal histories - and they're *all* valid. thank you to the people who understand that to truly be passionate about living, sometimes you have to have considered the alternatives.

i think the best tool for someone who is or has been seriously contemplating taking their own life is the pen and paper. the first time i felt deadly serious about it (no joke intended) i made a list of allll the stuff i'd have to do before i could seriously consider it. by the time i was 3/4 through the list life had picked up quite a bit and i saw a few options i hadn't had previously. there was a real moment when a couple of years later, i found that list, read it again, nodded--and threw it away.

then a couple of really bad years came upon me, and i found myself needing a list again. i haven't written this one down but i feel it itemizing itself in my head. it's how i know things are at my tolerance threshhold. i fight it all the time with the power of little positive thoughts. my fridge is covered with positive thinking/motivation magnets. my computer screensaver tells me something good about myself. i bought a fish to keep me company at night (i know it sounds weird but he's sooo social and he loves hanging out on my nightstand). my dog is the best dog ever. my parrot makes me laugh. it will probably be sunny tomorrow. i've managed to live for almost 5 years with shitty credit, it can only get better, and they can't take any of my stuff - haha! the best part about being 50lbs heavier than you want to be is being able to later say "I LOST 50 POUNDS AND I FEEL GREAT!" there are movies that i haven't seen and books i haven't read. i still don't know how to knit. i've never been sailing. i want to swim with dolphins and goof around with tiger cubs. you get the picture.

but i've decided - and this is the second most powerful tool for someone who has found themselves thinking about the voluntary end of life - choosing your terms... i've decided that if i ever get 'weak' enough or 'cowardly' enough that my way out will be this: i'm going to go to some malaria infested, impoverished, starved, war-ridden place, and i'm going to dig a well or haul water or hug kids or care for the dying. maybe i'll get 'lucky' and catch a bullet or a bug....or maybe i'll find what i couldn't fill my list with here - a solid reason why living is worth it.

<3 to you all. walk the path you choose or the path that chooses you - but what ever you do, keep walking.

[Lacy]

To Lacy: While everyone on here is understanding of financial hardship, not everyone is going to be understanding of different, other "taboo" issues. Hell, I work in social services and have had co-workers tell me how they think it's stupid that people commit suicide w/o thinking that they could be talking to someone that's tried. The internet is an unforgiving place.

Your right .. how can they when its pretty apparent some have never had to deal with this issue.

So I thought I would post a couple of links in here that I found for people who may be dealing with these kind of feelings and thoughts...

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

http://www.suicideforum.com/

[epiphany]

On the front page of my local newspaper there is an article today explaining a 102% increase in calls to a suicide hotline in the first 5 months of 2008. One man, a subcontractor, called saying he was going to kill his family and then himself because of an impending foreclosure to his home. This is sad and one of the repercussions of an economy that is in a recession. I remember people killing themselves back in 87' when the Stock Market took a dive and I am sure the suicide rate has always spiked up in bad economic woes. But why? Is it because people cant come to terms with losing worldly possessions? Is is because people have made owning a home and car the standard of success? I see alot of people post on here feeling ashamed and hopeless that they are going to lose their houses and possessions. Are these things worth your life? Absolutely not. I remember a post about a woman losing her house and coming to the conclusion that what really makes a home is not the house but her family, and wherever that family goes the love goes with it. People need to start detaching themselves from the materialism of this world and realizing there are more important things than houses, car, boats, etc., and being indifferent to the stigma of bankruptcy that society places on those individuals. Stop making bankruptcy personal! You are no less a person because of it, remember that.

You are so right but I can't help but wonder, as in the case of the woman who we read recently took her life, if it is an effort to make sure that the family is taken care of. Definitely a warped perspective, because a family never really recovers from that.

My best friends Mother (who was a second mother to me growing up) committed suicide 6 months after she lost her lost her husband about 15 years ago. This had nothing to do with financial woes but the pain it has caused her surviving children remains.

I would beg anyone who thinks for a moment that their family is going to be better off without the financial burden to rethink it. Financial problems can be overcome and make you stronger. The loss of a loved one, especially too soon, is pain forever.

ep

[Frogge]

Amazing thread. I was reading in awe, I appreciate the candid comments and stories that you all have put here in this public forum. I have felt very dark days where I thought 'what's the point', and I feel fortunate to have a frame of mind and hopefullness at this point in my life that does not warrant taking my own life. I knew people that did, and I can tell you, it's more real than anything else.. when you realize you will never see or be with someone again because they didn't see a reason to stay here.

AngelinaCat those are incredible stories about your gfs. And -I, presonally would never think of 'Hub as being harsh or uncaring in the least! Love to you both.

[Help!]

I have to admit that the day I first posted on this forum I had cried for most of the day and felt more helpless and hopeless than any other day in my life. It had nothing to do with material things, but the overwhelming feelings of failure that hit me at my 341 hearing. Up until this experience I really didn't have too many failures to cope with in life. I was the "good" daughter, the level-headed one who did well in school, stayed out of trouble, never embarrassed my parents, never disappointed... always ran myself into the ground to win approval and praise.

As I drove over a nearby bridge, I found myself thinking about what it would feel like to fall, whether or not I could control myself falling and dive gracefully with a small splash, envisioning judges holding up black and white score cards for my dive... "9.9, 10, 9.8, 9.7". My next thought was that my husband and kids wouldn't get the life insurance payment. Completely warped, I know, and I really should have driven myself straight to the nearest psychiatrist. I thought about that, too, but decided the co-pay for the visit and the cost of whatever happy pills they put me on would just be another bill I'd have to pay when our case was dismissed.

Thankfully, there was an outpouring of support in response to my post and these thoughts subsided as I calmed down and started to see things in perspective again. It scares me that those thoughts crossed my mind, but I know there's a very large gap between thinking those things and actually acting on them. I'm not a big drinker, but I knew even one or two drinks would narrow the gap so I swore off all alcohol (even a glass of wine) until discharge. It is an incredibly stressful thing to go through and it can hit you all at once when you least expect it.

[Bandit]

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

Start by considering this statement:

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens
when pain exceeds
resources for coping with pain.”

That’s all it’s about. You are not a bad person, or crazy, or weak, or flawed, because you feel suicidal. It doesn’t even mean that you really want to die - it only means that you have more pain than you can cope with right now. If I start piling weights on your shoulders, you will eventually collapse if I add enough weights... no matter how much you want to remain standing. Willpower has nothing to do with it. Of course you would cheer yourself up, if you could.


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I have visited that site many times & it really taught me a few things!

[AngelinaCatHub]

Good morning all. It is amazing how healing a good nights rest is. When I have been at my worst blues, I have always realized how wonderful the next morning is.

I have been thinking through all of this unique thread, there was a very troubled person. I just cannot think of his nick name, but he was extremely despondent. Many of us did our jobs to attempt to tell the person that there is hope after bk. He (or she) mentioned the “S” word in the post. The thread was quite long, but after perhaps two posts, no more. I just wonder about that unknown individual’s welfare now. I hope he/she is alright. ‘Hub

[Phillymanhere]

This speaks to one of the supreme ironies of my decision to file for bk. Until I did so, I had all of these distorted, harsh views of myself--that money and financial success was a reflection of my self-worth.

It took coming here and reaching this desperate point in my life to really throw off that harsh attitude. The challenge ahead for me is to work on improving my finances while still not judging my worth based on my finances!

I see how easy it is (once we're past this crisis) to return to the old way of thinking, where I feel superior to others because I have a little money in the bank, etc. Yes, financial prosperity has great benefits and it can certainly lead to less stress and less worry. And you can travel more, vacation more, etc. But ... this does not mean you have more worth than the person who can't afford to vacation less.

The sad thing of course (about these folks who are suicidally depressed) is that as long as you don't abandon them, kids will love parents who are suffering from financial problems. Even if you have to move the kids and disrupt their lives, they will still love you and want you to live ... Thinking about suicide means you've really moved to distorted and unrealistic and inaccurate thinking ... and I totally see how easy it is to do that!