BK again 8+ years later

[dealingsdone]

First post here.

My History: Filed Chapter 7 over 8 years ago. Due mainly to out of control gambling.

Fast forward 8+ years later and my behavior has not changed much. I have racked up nearly 50k in debt again. I am amazed I was able to obtain so much credit given my past record and obvious gambling issues. All the creditors can see that I regularly see I cash advance often and rack up huge fees from doing this.

My income: 25-30K a year more or less.

Problem: I will be completly buried now when the bills hit me. I will be unable to make minimum payments. My tightrope act will be over since my income barely covers my expenses. I realize I am completely irresponsible. I do not deserve or want another credit card in this lifetime or the next...

Potential fraud problem?: In a last ditch effort to get even here towards the end, I cash advanced over 11k in one day, on one credit card. Needless to say that was fruitless as it always seems to be. The cash advance itself was not unusual since I had done precisely the same thing several times in the past and always survived, but this time I essentially have gone 'toe up'.

Comments and or advice will be appreaciated. How should I go about explaining myself during this bankruptcy? Do you forsee me having any problems discharging all my debt yet again?

Thank you,

[Frogge]

I'm sure someone with a lot more experience will jump in here, dealingsdone, but my first thoughts are - 1) Sounds like you're ready to get help with this very obvious gambling problem, have you looked into/contacted a Gambler's help group in your area? Seems like that would help show that you are trying to 'turn a new leaf' with this problem when you do seek help to get on your feet financially. 2) Do you own? rent? assets? 3) When did you take that last cash advance? From what I understand, those cash advances are what CC companies will object to easier than anything if it's within 6 months.

I really hope you can get some help with this, good luck to you.

[magyar123]

If you file 6 or more months after your last cash advance you should have no problems filing, and possibly get discharged.

[morallyBR2]

Retain an attorney and a psychiatrist. You obviously have a problem and some debtors anonymous meetings will make things look a little better for you in front of the trustee. But seriously, you do need some help.

[dealingsdone]

Yeah I hear you about the GA meetings, I've been there and done that, but I did not stick with it. If/when this financial crisis passes, I want to avoid ever obtaining credit again. I have shown that I am too reckless and I always have been. I need to find some new and exiciting hobbies.

Based on the information to this point I guess I should avoid filing for a while. A little added information to digest is that 3 years ago I had over 400k in my bank accounts, due to some good fortune in business. That is also all gone as well. As I think this over more, I suppose I can show the court the embarrassing bank statements and the gradual & relentless decline.

Thanks Morallybr2 for the idea about a psychiatrist. Perhaps I should just charge that to the credit cards too! I will have to see about insurance coverage. I actually have been contemplating utilizing a 'gambling pill' that will dull the pleasure senses apparently. I am concerned about getting zero pleasure out of all other aspects of my life too though.

[Bandit]

Kindest Regards, dealingsdone.

Comments and or advice will be appreaciated.

if you want to gamble then you should learn to use your own earned money to gamble & not take it from others while setting a limit on what you spend. If you cant handle that, then you should stop all together because what you are doing is selfish....since you asked

Do you forsee me having any problems discharging all my debt yet again?

While under the law you are still entitled to do it all over again, I would expect a little scrutiny this time around.

I do not deserve or want another credit card in this lifetime or the next...

That is what the banks will be saying for awhile, as you already know. Getting credit is not hard but using it to it's full potential & to your benefit is.

I worked with a real bad gambler. I could not believe he was so in debt from gambling & had the nerve to ask the other employees to give him money to gamble with. I would have been just as stupid as he is if I had gave him my earned money on that so I had no problem telling him NO, every time he asked.

Potential fraud problem?:

Your guess is as good as any one elses at this point, and hopefully you retained all gambling receipts to show that is where the cash went, just in case they come looking for it.

You already know the ropes for going BK, so there isn't a whole lot that anyone can really say it this point that you dont already know. Maybe check out the new laws since 2005......& see if you will go in under a 7 or 13.

[Bandit]

Thanks Morallybr2 for the idea about a psychiatrist.

You need more than a psychiatrist

Just Teasing!!!

Based on the information to this point I guess I should avoid filing for a while.

Agreed

[Phillymanhere]

Dealings,

I will echo the others here. You definitely want to find a really good therapist AND a psychiatrist AND a gamblers support group. I had a different type of reckless compulsion and that's why I am here, and I have had to do all the things I am recommending to you.

This is clearly a deep rooted problem, and I would not trust your self that "I have learned my lesson."

The problem is that when a habit like this is ingrained, it is hard to break because all kinds of emotions/situations can "trigger" you.

I have a good friend who has a gambling problem. He "gambled" by investing recklessly in the stock market and lost all his money. But he also gambles at casinos--even when he is down to the last few dollars and it's still early in the month. Well one day he was at a free concert/dance party at a big city park. He enjoyed himself, danced, enjoyed the music, was connecting with people around him. Well, he felt so good that you guessed it, he went to gamble. Apparently the healthy "high" of the outdoor music concert was similar to the "high" he gets from gambling.

This is just to emphasize that you probably need to do some serious work and get with a group. Because compulsions like this can be triggered not just by stress, but by happiness and success! .....

Good luck.

[Odie]

Not for gambling, but I'm FINALLY in therapy now, which I've probably needed since childhood. It seems like a waste of time at first, but once you develop a relationship with a psychologist you trust, it does help. And so does Prozac.

But I'm certain that a lot of my issues caused me to rack up the bills I did. Treating the underlying cause AND swearing to a cash-only existance going forward will be huge positive steps for me.

Find a new hobby. Build or make things, either just for the fun of it or possibly to sell. If you like the competition aspect of gambling, join something like a bowling league or some other team activity.

But please get some kind of help. Bankruptcy is supposed to be a second chance, not a third or a fourth. I'm not judging here, you have to do what's best for you. But you most of all don't want to be in this situation AGAIN. And you know the root cause of it. Get the help you need and get your life back on track, for real this time. Best wishes.

[Flamingo]

First post here.

My History: Filed Chapter 7 over 8 years ago. Due mainly to out of control gambling.

Fast forward 8+ years later and my behavior has not changed much. I have racked up nearly 50k in debt again. I am amazed I was able to obtain so much credit given my past record and obvious gambling issues. All the creditors can see that I regularly see I cash advance often and rack up huge fees from doing this.

My income: 25-30K a year more or less.

Problem: I will be completly buried now when the bills hit me. I will be unable to make minimum payments. My tightrope act will be over since my income barely covers my expenses. I realize I am completely irresponsible. I do not deserve or want another credit card in this lifetime or the next...

Potential fraud problem?: In a last ditch effort to get even here towards the end, I cash advanced over 11k in one day, on one credit card. Needless to say that was fruitless as it always seems to be. The cash advance itself was not unusual since I had done precisely the same thing several times in the past and always survived, but this time I essentially have gone 'toe up'.

Comments and or advice will be appreaciated. How should I go about explaining myself during this bankruptcy? Do you forsee me having any problems discharging all my debt yet again?

Thank you,

You filed previously under the Old Law (prior to 10/05). At that time I believe there was a seven year period from the time of your filing until you would be eligible to again file Chapter 7 again (under the New Law - after 10/05), it has been extended to 8 years. As to your situation, the main thing is you actually realize your problem but cannot control it. Many people have addictive personalities; they live for the "high" the addiction provides; i.e. shopping, gambling, drugs, drinking, sex, etc...without that high, self esteem is lowered and depression sets in. In order for you to not find yourself again in this position in another 7 to 8 years, you must go beyond what you were trying to do in the past. As everyone else stated, you need a support system along with proper medical intervention and possibly having yourself blocked from casinos or race tracks if possible to keep you out of there. You will need to find a hobby or outside interest that you love or feel you can come to enjoy and when the addictive urges hit, call a buddy in your buddy system and/or go do something associated with that hobby. You need to divert yourself as much as possible from your addiction.

Also note that your first bankruptcy filing is still on your credit reports at least for another 10 years. You are going to have two filings listed on all your credit reports. You will be lucky if you can ever get any credit again for several years and that might be a good thing for you to keep you away from any lines of credit until you can get your life straightened out.

There are people out there that will hold your hand and get you through this but you have to cooperate with them and put yourself on their doorstep to get help. Filing bankruptcy peridically and struggling with all in between during your lifetime is no way to live.

[Flamingo]

I'm sorry - I meant "2" years, not "10" in the below sentence from my previous posting (I just type too fast!) :-)

"Also note that your first bankruptcy filing is still on your credit reports at least for another 10 years. You are going to have two filings listed on all your credit reports. You will be lucky if you can ever get any credit again for several years and that might be a good thing for you to keep you away from any lines of credit until you can get your life straightened out."

[CindyLou]

You should make sure you are in RECOVERY before you file. When I recovery, I mean that you have completed an inpatient programs! Take this opportunity to get a true fresh start and get some intensive professional help for your gambling or you will be repeating this cycle again in 8 years, gauranteed!! Good luck and welcome to the board.

cindy

[morallyBR2]

You need more than a psychiatrist

Just Teasing!!!



Agreed

Wait about 6 months before initiating the process but don't use your cards for anything. Make at least the minimum payment on each card at least one time each. If you can swing two; that would be better. In the mean time, try drinking

[dealingsdone]

I sure do appreaciate all the thoughts and advice.

This weekend I had an unusual & severe headache. I think it was because I wanted to go out and gamble, but instead I made myself stay inside and watch TV. I remember this happening quite often in the past too when I was out of money but I did not put it all together until just now. Well anyway the weekend is over and I survived...

I think I am the sort that can have my gambling triggered by both good and bad things. Sadly, still there is still no place I would rather be than Vegas or belly up to a local card game. It is terribly unfortunate that the thing I enjoy the most is so detrimental to my life.

When I was younger I avoided drugs while all my buddies partook in that, and some friends became somewhat addicted and unable to function properly. As for me, I think my addiction is worse because I have been able to function for decades now at a subpar level. It would have been much easier to just get all the addictions over with while in my mid 20's and then go on living a 'normal' life. The money aspect of what gambling has done to me is only one small aspect of the damage done.

Thanks again everybody,

[Flamingo]

I sure do appreaciate all the thoughts and advice.

This weekend I had an unusual & severe headache. I think it was because I wanted to go out and gamble, but instead I made myself stay inside and watch TV. I remember this happening quite often in the past too when I was out of money but I did not put it all together until just now. Well anyway the weekend is over and I survived...

I think I am the sort that can have my gambling triggered by both good and bad things. Sadly, still there is still no place I would rather be than Vegas or belly up to a local card game. It is terribly unfortunate that the thing I enjoy the most is so detrimental to my life.

When I was younger I avoided drugs while all my buddies partook in that, and some friends became somewhat addicted and unable to function properly. As for me, I think my addiction is worse because I have been able to function for decades now at a subpar level. It would have been much easier to just get all the addictions over with while in my mid 20's and then go on living a 'normal' life. The money aspect of what gambling has done to me is only one small aspect of the damage done.

Thanks again everybody,

Your physical symptoms are a sign of your addiction. It's your mind and body's way of keeping you in the addiction cycle. Also, by going to casinos and to card games it gives you the attention you crave from other gamblers or those around you. It's your comfort zone and you don't want to leave it. Since you have been suffering for years, I am sure you know the entire process will not be easy and you have to put yourself in a position to ensure it works. Or the cycle will continue to repeat. In a situation such as yours, you not only take yourself down, but anyone close to you. The best thing here is that you realize the problem and are not looking for excuses. But reailze that you are up against the wall again and are looking to find another way out. That is a major problem also because once you get the finances resolved you are back where you started the last time. Best of luck to you!