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**Runnin on empty** · 05-12-2008, 12:55 PM

Here are my thoughts. My new values are in bold, and notes where needed. As always, check it out with your lawyer, but chances are, he/she is not going to want you to "give away the farm" if you don't need to. Also, I'm surprised they didn't tell you to lump things together, like "kitchen appliances and utensils" meaning everything in the kitchen and give a value to that, rather than go down the line and list each and every thing.

Originally posted by Dirk Squarejaw View Post

Living Room
Sony PS2 Gaming system bought in 2001 $50 You wouldn't get more than that for it
25 various PS2 games $50 I'm a huge gamer, trust me, the value on those drop drastically.
Entertainment center $50 Unless it is solid wood like oak, ect, it isn't worth more than that.

Kitchen
Microwave 6yrs old $25 (you can get a brand-new one for under $100)

Computer Room
basic computer desk $50 Unless it is solid wood like oak, ect, it isn't worth more than that.
2002 Sony Vaio works ok $100-$150 it's 6 years old

Master bedroom
15 pairs of shoes $75 They're shoes

Spare room
Plastic promo models $215 - What are promo models?

Garage
air compressor upright air compressor $150
40yo tool chest $50 - It's 40 years old.
"various wrenches, sockets, pliers, screwdrivers" $100

Remember, this isn't about pride, this is about flying under the radar as best as you can while still being honest. Each trustee/district is different obviously, but we still got to keep everything of ours, you just need to assign decent values to them. I too was surprised how much our stuff got discounted. We had just purchased a brand-new leather couch and 3 leather chairs 6 months prior, probably paid $2500 for them all, but our lawyer valued it at $500. You just have to be creative. Remember, if the trustee wants this stuff, they have to come get it, list it, sell it and then divvy up the proceeds. Chances are, they won't waste their time.

**WhatMoney** · 05-12-2008, 01:42 PM

Master bath
beard trimmer Phillips beard and moustache trimmer $10
nose trimmer $1
electric razor Braun razor $10
plunger "wooden handle, rubber head" $1
towels & washcloths 18 towels 15 washcloths $30

I would cut the value of everything above by 50%. The nose trimmer and plunger "wooden handle, rubber head" are overvalued if they are used.

A rusty 73 Plymouth with a seized engine and no title can't be worth anything to a trustee. You would have to pay to have it towed to a scrapyard.

The auction prices for most of your furniture, other than possibly the mattress bed set, is also less than you list. There is so much used furniture and household stuff for sale these days it's a wonder it has any value.

**AngelinaCat** · 05-12-2008, 01:52 PM

I agree with Runnin_on_empty. Shoes are shoes and once worn, no one else is really going to want them as your foot and walking pattern 'imprints' the shoe and can make them painful for someone else. My major concern is about all the tools listed such as the welder, etc. If you use these in the course of making your living, you should be able to claim them as 'tools of the trade'. On microwave ovens, we haven't purchased a new one in ages. We pick them up on the side of the road. Nine times out of ten, the problem is a blown fuse, which the hubby replaces, and it works just fine. Those that aren't fixable, are scrapped out with the carcass going to the scrap metal yard for a few pennies. The glass plate inside becomes another platter.

I hope this helps

**Dirk Squarejaw** · 05-12-2008, 03:27 PM

I guessing then that the Intuit Turbotax site is a little overzealous on pricing to get bigger returns? Supposidely they are what used stuff goes for on Ebay from what I gather.

I like these suggestions though.

**Runnin on empty** · 05-12-2008, 04:16 PM

Honestly, for the most part, just plan on halving everything (maybe even thirds).

I can't see the trustee taking anything, it is just not worth the hassle for him/her on minimal returns, and that is assuming they sell all of our stuff and sell it quickly.

Don't take my word as gospel, but I think it is more than safe to say you are in the clear.

*Edit- I forgot, don't use E-bay pricing. Our lawyer told us "How much would you get for said item if you had it in front of your house for an estate or garage sale - in cash"

You could have a Babe Ruth rookie card, but if someone only is willing to give you $20 for it, then that is what it is worth. Obviously that example is a little over the top, but you get my meaning. A $3K plasma TV that was bought 3 years ago might only fetch $500 (if that) in cash right in front of your house. Capishe? ;)

**justplaintired** · 05-12-2008, 05:50 PM

This is very detailed, much more so then what we did. We are garage salers, so we know garage sale prices. I believe you may have overpriced almost everything. What you need to ask yourself is, Would you pay that much for it at a garage sale, chances are you wouldn't. If you are like most of us, you "stuff" really wouldn't net you much at a garage sale. I have a garage sale almost every summer and I am lucky to make a couple hundred on it, if that. I know, it seems like your "stuff" is worth something, but honestly it isn't worth near what you think.

For instance, I went garage saleing this weekend and bought my son some really great Aeropostal khaki shorts, all in perfect shape, 4 pairs cost me $2.00, got him a pair of etnie shoes, skater shoes for those who don't know, he's 13, anyway brand new never worn, paid $1.00 for them. Does that tell you? I went to a garage sale 2 summers ago and bought a top of the line Whirlpool ceramic top stove, never used and paid $100.00 for it. So see, even though all this stuff cost alot when new, it's not worth much used.

I believe you should cut your assets down atleast by 1/2. Not the motorcycle, it is in the Kelley Blue book I think, not sure, but check and make sure your figures are correct on that. All the other household items, refigure, don't use ebay, it going to be way too high. Go to some garage sales and look around, you'll be surprised.

Good luck

**morallyBR2** · 05-12-2008, 08:12 PM

Wait a minute... You have to list things like plungers and nose hair trimmers? I wonder what they will say when I tell them I don't own any cd's or dvd's because I'm such a media pirate. I love downloading some movies and music. After all, I don't ever have money to buy them.

**FreshLikeADaisy** · 05-12-2008, 10:54 PM

MorallyBR2, *no* you don't have to list things like plungers and nose hair trimmers! If the aggregate value of your bathroom items *combined* is over $50, then it's usually best to enter these valued assets in a "Household Goods/Miscellaneous" category as a lump sum.

This is where the Nolo book really, really helped me a lot. You *don't* have to separately list every single toothpick and shoelace you own! Basically, list what has a value of $50 or more, or any group of things that has an aggregate value of $50 or more. This will help you a great deal.

Another thing to keep in mind is that bks are public record. Do y'all REALLY want someone reading through your bk to visualize your usage of any of these items? Ewww, I say. Ewww.

Whatever I do with or to or behind my nose hair is between me and God, know what I mean? And gonna stay that way if I can at all help it. So keep that in mind when you are struggling to assign a value to your male enhancement device or bikini waxer or that little toy you and your date picked up on a drunken spree in Key West: lump it into another category and give it an aggregate value. Trust me on this.

Dirk, in addition to the great advice you've already been given by others here, do yourself a favor and remove your linens (towels, washcloths, bedsheets, whatever), your bed mattress(es), and your "personal hygiene devices". These are basically unsalable in many places if they have ever been used, even once. For instance, the bed itself, sans mattresses and linens, is what you would value.

And while I did list mine out like you did -- that is to say, in some detail -- I did give general figures for a number of things, like "Kitchen cookware, small appliances, dishes, utensils, etc: $150" because they really don't need you to list every fork.

On the other hand, I used Ebay extensively for valuing items. Someone here said you can't, but I and many, many others have without any problem. It STILL counts as replacement value. When I got my values that way, I made sure I noted so on the schedules per the example given in the Nolo book: this way there was no question that the replacement prices I listed were "used prices".

The thing that rocks about Ebay is that you have a *vast* selection of items immediately available to compare, and for things that have a fluctuating value, like that laptop you got last year, you put in the maker and the model number and *boom!* you have a value right there. I generally took the average value of an item I valued via Ebay, and not just the lowest. I also screenprinted the search results of the various items I was pricing so that I would have a record of how and where I arrived at that number. They never wanted it or even asked about it, but I had it just in case.

You can also assign a value of $0 if something is simply unreplaceable. I have this wonderful old Sony Trinitron television from 1992: it was the flat screen of the early 90s.

But now it's 16 years old, and while it still works well, I couldn't sell it for much, nor could I buy another. So when I added it as an asset, I listed the value as zero on the basis of its age. Never heard a peep about it, either.

Also, if you have a large item that is in bad or unrepaired shape, like a car, don't think you have to stick with the KBB or NADA or Edmonds estimate, either. Print out their estimate, and subtract what you feel like is a *reasonable* deduction for needed repairs. The adjusted estimate is what you then supply on your schedules. Add a note to explain your repair deduction, or formally add the entire mathwork to a continuation sheet if you're worried about it.

BTW, everything I just suggested is quite legal, and most were suggested to me by the Nolo book, so there you have it. Also, it's helpful to actually look over the categories listed on Schedules B & C -- that will give you a good idea about how to arrange everything.

Hope this helps...

**Dirk Squarejaw** · 05-13-2008, 04:00 AM

Originally posted by Runnin on empty View Post

Spare room
Plastic promo models $215 - What are promo models?

They are plastic promotional model cars that are sold through car dealerships. In the late mid-'90s I probably would have had $500-700 worth, however as much as I like the internet.......the advent of online trade killed their prices. Cars that once went for $25 are worth $5 and only a handful of really rare ones from the '50s and '60s are worth much of anything.

**morallyBR2** · 05-13-2008, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by FreshLikeADaisy View Post

MorallyBR2, *no* you don't have to list things like plungers and nose hair trimmers! If the aggregate value of your bathroom items *combined* is over $50, then it's usually best to enter these valued assets in a "Household Goods/Miscellaneous" category as a lump sum.

This is where the Nolo book really, really helped me a lot. You *don't* have to separately list every single toothpick and shoelace you own! Basically, list what has a value of $50 or more, or any group of things that has an aggregate value of $50 or more. This will help you a great deal.

Another thing to keep in mind is that bks are public record. Do y'all REALLY want someone reading through your bk to visualize your usage of any of these items? Ewww, I say. Ewww.

Whatever I do with or to or behind my nose hair is between me and God, know what I mean? And gonna stay that way if I can at all help it. So keep that in mind when you are struggling to assign a value to your male enhancement device or bikini waxer or that little toy you and your date picked up on a drunken spree in Key West: lump it into another category and give it an aggregate value. Trust me on this.

Dirk, in addition to the great advice you've already been given by others here, do yourself a favor and remove your linens (towels, washcloths, bedsheets, whatever), your bed mattress(es), and your "personal hygiene devices". These are basically unsalable in many places if they have ever been used, even once. For instance, the bed itself, sans mattresses and linens, is what you would value.

And while I did list mine out like you did -- that is to say, in some detail -- I did give general figures for a number of things, like "Kitchen cookware, small appliances, dishes, utensils, etc: $150" because they really don't need you to list every fork.

On the other hand, I used Ebay extensively for valuing items. Someone here said you can't, but I and many, many others have without any problem. It STILL counts as replacement value. When I got my values that way, I made sure I noted so on the schedules per the example given in the Nolo book: this way there was no question that the replacement prices I listed were "used prices".

The thing that rocks about Ebay is that you have a *vast* selection of items immediately available to compare, and for things that have a fluctuating value, like that laptop you got last year, you put in the maker and the model number and *boom!* you have a value right there. I generally took the average value of an item I valued via Ebay, and not just the lowest. I also screenprinted the search results of the various items I was pricing so that I would have a record of how and where I arrived at that number. They never wanted it or even asked about it, but I had it just in case.

You can also assign a value of $0 if something is simply unreplaceable. I have this wonderful old Sony Trinitron television from 1992: it was the flat screen of the early 90s.

But now it's 16 years old, and while it still works well, I couldn't sell it for much, nor could I buy another. So when I added it as an asset, I listed the value as zero on the basis of its age. Never heard a peep about it, either.

Also, if you have a large item that is in bad or unrepaired shape, like a car, don't think you have to stick with the KBB or NADA or Edmonds estimate, either. Print out their estimate, and subtract what you feel like is a *reasonable* deduction for needed repairs. The adjusted estimate is what you then supply on your schedules. Add a note to explain your repair deduction, or formally add the entire mathwork to a continuation sheet if you're worried about it.

BTW, everything I just suggested is quite legal, and most were suggested to me by the Nolo book, so there you have it. Also, it's helpful to actually look over the categories listed on Schedules B & C -- that will give you a good idea about how to arrange everything.

Hope this helps...

Lol Ms. Daisy!! Well put. I guess I will keep my "male enhancment products" a dirty little secret a little longer. Thanks for the advice!

**whatamess** · 05-14-2008, 05:01 AM

Rotflol!

My God I havent read or posted in ages on here but I had to comment on the last one..OMG. Thats hilarious. Im twisted.
Our attorney did what everyone else is saying. He listed it by room and placed very minimal value. Trust me they wont be coming over to check it out.
Half most of it. I am a vendor at various flea markets in the Northeast area and can tell you that would be honest pricing.
Good luck!
WAM

**Dirk Squarejaw** · 05-14-2008, 10:19 AM

I guess I've just been paranoid about having all my 'i's dotted and 't's crossed to make sure the motorcycle falls in the exemption. Its my one last thing that I really like that I haven't sold off to save my butt. For those who ride, going out for a nice weekend ride is almost as good as any therapy a doctor could provide.

The odd thing is that the prices vary quite a bit depending on the source. My lawyer's office said to use KBB or NADA. As you can see the prices vary quite a bit and I'm guessing I should use either the NADA or KBB retail price which is different by around $1500.

Kelly Blue Book- Retail $4455
Kelly Blue Book- Trade-in $3060

NADA- Avg. Retail $2850
NADA- Low Retail $2170

The bike looks like brand new, but needs brake pads, chain and sprocket. Pretty normal for a 10yo bike with 21k miles, but it also needs the 18k mile service done where they adjust the valves, etc. because I rode it almost exclusively until last December and ran over on the miles. So.....I'm thinking I should subtract about $1k for the work that needs to be done or at least use the low NADA value. What do you guys think?

**FreshLikeADaisy** · 05-14-2008, 11:55 AM

Dirk, I think you should be as generous to yourself as you can with your estimates and deductions, as long as you can back up where you got your figures, if asked to do so. I too found NADA to be a good deal lower than KBB, so that's what I used, and subtracted a few hundred for needed repairs. In other words, use both.

Myself, I highballed the repair estimate because I couldn't back it up with receipts or official estimates; I valued the repairs at probably a third of what they will actually cost me. But I took the *lowest* official estimate of the vehicle I could find. Does that make sense?

I printed out the NADA estimate page, circled "low retail", added a margin note estimating needed repairs, subtracted it, and then put TOTAL VALUE: $_____ in big letters, all in red ink. He could have seen it from an airplane, what I did and how I got there.

My trustee wanted the estimate up front (for any vehicles) so I submitted it directly to him with all my other docs.

But before that, I also, when listing it on my schedules, made sure to put the YEAR of the vehicle in my description: I wanted him to know up front just how old it is. I would suggest you do the same.

If it makes you feel better, ask a biker friend of yours who also does work on bikes to write you up an informal estimate as well; use that to back up your position if/when you are asked.

In the end, it's up to the trustee to challenge a value you place on something. If you are reasonable in your estimate, you should be just fine. But don't, Dirk, *don't* overestimate the value of the thing at all if you can help it, because you're just wasting your exemption dollars that way. I appreciate your thoroughness -- and definitely hang on to your asset lists, because being able to whip it out if/when asked is a great thing -- but bring those values down. You're giving away the farm!!!

I wish you the best of luck!!!

**justplaintired** · 05-14-2008, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Dirk Squarejaw View Post

I guess I've just been paranoid about having all my 'i's dotted and 't's crossed to make sure the motorcycle falls in the exemption. Its my one last thing that I really like that I haven't sold off to save my butt. For those who ride, going out for a nice weekend ride is almost as good as any therapy a doctor could provide.

The odd thing is that the prices vary quite a bit depending on the source. My lawyer's office said to use KBB or NADA. As you can see the prices vary quite a bit and I'm guessing I should use either the NADA or KBB retail price which is different by around $1500.

Kelly Blue Book- Retail $4455
Kelly Blue Book- Trade-in $3060

NADA- Avg. Retail $2850
NADA- Low Retail $2170

The bike looks like brand new, but needs brake pads, chain and sprocket. Pretty normal for a 10yo bike with 21k miles, but it also needs the 18k mile service done where they adjust the valves, etc. because I rode it almost exclusively until last December and ran over on the miles. So.....I'm thinking I should subtract about $1k for the work that needs to be done or at least use the low NADA value. What do you guys think?

We have a Jeep we feel the same about. It's older, 1995, the top comes off in the summer and stays off til fall. We love it. We had a Harley we hope to replace someday, still have all the Harley stuff, it's actually kind of sad when I think about it. It was older 1976, but we loved it. We rode all the time before we had kids. The jeep has some rust, not alot. The seats need to be recovered, ( I suppose leaving it uncovered isn't great on those), but we still love it. We have gone with the Kelley blue book value on all our cars. We used the retail and in fair condition, because honestly they are all only fair. Rusty 1993 deisel truck with just over 300,000 miles! Amazing how far a deisel will go. A 1999 Kia, need I say more, it's a Kia and then there's the Jeep, which we love, so if the trustee wants a car, he's getting the Kia, not the Jeep, it's much more dependable that the Kia. So, we are praying we will be ok and our attorney believes we will be, so keeping my fingers crossed. Good luck Dirk, here's hoping we both fare well in Indiana.

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