How did you decide whether or not to file pro se?

[zenmamajen]

Without going too much into my details, I'm curious about others who have already filed, whether with an attorney or not.

For those who filed with an attorney, did you consider filing on your own? and what made you decide not to? If you had to do it all again, would you reconsider filing pro se?

For those who did file pro se, did you have some other motivation besides avoiding the cost of an attorney? Did you get paralegal assistance or do it ALL on your own? If you got to go back, would you get a lawyer or do it on your own again? What was the hardest part?

Thanks all... I'm really struggling to make decisions here and your feedback is appreciated!

[imbroke2]

I didn't even know what pro se meant until I got on here. I would never think of doing anything legal-wise without a lawyer. I know there are good and bad ones out there like in any field, but we interviewed a couple about a year or so before we actually filed. I know it can be expensive, but I didn't have the time, energy or resources to do it myself.

[Phillymanhere]

Was thinking of filing pro se but ....

When I first began to consider bankruptcy starting a month back, I was definitely thinking I would file pro se in order to save money basically. Then I noticed how anxious I was. I was filled with dread. Took me a few days to realize I wasn't anxious about the bankruptcy (though yes I had some anxiety about that) as much as I was anxious that I would mess something up by filing by myself.
The idea of filing pro se created two levels of worry!
I'm now thinking I will hire an attorney. There are always things a competent attorney knows that an outsider won't know. There are always relationships formed at a courthouse, shortcuts, tips, inside information that a layman won't know. There is always something about any process that isn't "written up" or explicitly identified but which the practitioners know.
Another point. I know filing pro se could save me money. But I would probably drive myself crazy researching things for weeks ..... the value of those hours is likely to cancel out the lower cost of filing by myself.
As I've settled on the idea of hiring an attorney (and a really good one--i have a meeting with a trustee on Monday), I have felt much more calm and at peace. I'm still anxious, but not nearly as anxious as I was when I think about doing it myself.
Also, I'm thinking there's a benefit to telling creditors to call my attorney when the calls start! .... I won't have to talk to them or get their calls. That eases things a lot in my mind.
Love to hear what others say.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Zenmamajen, I filed pro se out of necessity, but in retrospect I am very glad that I did. I had no legal help (atty, paralegal, bk form preparer) but I had books, PACER, and all the nice people here. I am very glad I got forced into it, actually.

The big difference for me is that I had no major asset I was trying to save (equity in a house, for example) and nothing that would complicate a simple Chapter 7 (like lien issues, or likely creditor objections, etc) so the very worst that could happen to me without an atty was that I would get dismissed and refile in six months. It didn't.

But not everyone has the time or skills/abilities needed to go pro se, either, as Imbroke2 pointed out. I have no problem with forms or reading legalese, and plenty of time to devote to it, so it was a natural fit for me to go pro se. It certainly isn't for everyone!

If you're deciding whether or not to go pro se, the very BEST advice I can give you is to get the book linked in my sig and read through it. I haven't read the Dummies book (I've heard it is also very good) but the Nolo Press book I recommend tells you exactly how to determine whether your circumstances make you a good fit for a pro se Chapter 7, and when to stop and get an atty. It also tells you exactly what the process is and how to do it yourself. Whether you end up getting an atty or not, this was the best $27 I ever spent and I think it will be for you, too. Good luck!!!

[MajorMike]

An attorney is the best money spent. I'd sell my computer and give up internet access before attempting pro se, even if it was simple. I don't want to deal with that....

[FreshLikeADaisy]

MajorMike, I respect your feelings in this, but if you get the wrong atty you'll be "dealing" with a great deal more than just a bankruptcy. There are mediocre and even bad attorneys out there who have cost filers everything they own and then some, through no fault of their own.

This is why I encourage everyone to get as educated as they can about bk even if they get an atty, because it's YOUR finances, YOUR future on the line, not theirs. Many people here have, by educating themselves on the process, saved their own bk from the errors of incompetent attorneys. Read the posts, it's not uncommon. For instance, I can't even tell you how many "My filing has errors, my 341 is in [days/hours/minutes], and my atty won't return my calls!!!" posts I have read. And that's just the start.

Nothing against attorneys, and I don't want to come off that way, but blind, all-encompassing trust in an atty (or doctor, or other professional) is something I would NEVER recommend. Yes, you do have to trust them. But it's your life on the line, so get educated. THAT is the best $$$ you'll ever spend, because you'll help them and help yourself too.

[lrprn]

Putting all emotions aside, statistics across the US show that bankruptcy cases filed pro se are much more likely to be dismissed than cases filed with a bankruptcy lawyer

We have a very high skill level of pro se filers here - frankly, it's not the norm. And most folks who file bankruptcy with a lawyer and don't have problems have no reason to come here other than for moral support.

That means overall it's easy to get a skewed picture here at BK Forum. We have a higher percentage of pro se filers who do very well because they educate themselves deeply about bankruptcy and have straightforward, simple cases, and we also get a higher percentage of people who file with lawyers who don't do well and come here trying to get help because their cases aren't going smoothly.

Don't make the mistake of thinking this forum reflects reality when considering all the bk filers across the country - it doesn't.

[94mom]

I also filed pro se, but had a legal assistant type up the paperwork. I sat with him while he did it and he swore I was "spy for the US Trustee" because I knew every part about BK. Even if you do hire an attorney, please do yourself a favor and read all the books you can. I went to the local library and they had the NOLO book as well as several others. I read each and every one of them.
I also had no big assets, just a car.
Hang in there, you'll be done soon.

[Flamingo]

While the firm I work for does not handle bankruptcies, the firm next door does at which I have many friends. The percentage of pro se filers that have to come to them due to major screw ups because of the work involved is very high. Many people try to save money by filing pro se and end up just spending more and getting ulcers over the time, research and worry involved. Just like any other service, you pay the attorney and his staff to do the work for you. If there is a screw up, it's their fault not yours and they have to rectify it. All you do is verify the information you provided to them and file. No sleepless nights worrying about did I leave that out, I forgot that, etc. etc. While everyone cringes over filing fees, filing fees to get yourself out of a major tough spot compared to all the credit you are trying to get out from under is absolutely nothing.

I have nothing against pro se filers but the percentage of them being successful as appears to be stated on this forum, and as one mod states, is not that high. If one wants to take the chance of doing it and also has a ton of time to devote that that, it can be looked into but for many it is a scarey option to undertake.

[ameliabedilia]

For me, I knew I would be doing the same amount of research whether I had an attorney or not. That, combined with having no assets to protect made filing pro se the best choice for me. If I had lots of assets or a chance of being in a 13, a lawyer would have been a must for me.

Now, if you have no assets or anything compicated and you find yourself on the board everyday learning and posting and you think you might be interested in doing it on your own, then you probably can. I think lots of the people that come to this board BEFORE filing pro se or other are far more educated about bk than most. Those that come after they have filed (with an attorney or not) and try to figure out how to fix things are another story.

[zenmamajen]

Thanks so much all!!!

I have met with one attorney, who seemed very knowledgeable and whose practice is entirely based on bankruptcies, but I showed up for my 11:30 appointment and they kept me in the waiting room until 12:15. They were very nice and willing to do a payment plan with just the filing fee and $100 retainer up front, but I kind of got an "assembly line" vibe.

I plan to schedule another consulation or two and get some more questions answered and my ducks in a row, before I decide for sure what to do.

I've got Personal Bankruptcy Laws For Dummies, and NOLO guide to chapter 7 from the library, both of which are tremendously useful. The only major asset I have is the car which I plan to surrender. (I live and work along city bus routes.)

I'll surely be reading and posting around here throughout the process, y'all are fantastic!

[Cali]

I decided to use a lawyer, even though I've worked in law before and could have easily done it myself. I prefer to have someone else do the work.

[coma]

I filed pro se because of money. I had an objection to a couple of expenses, though they were not out of line for my area, so I hired an attorney. She put us into a 13 plan we couldn't afford by fudging our numbers, rather than fighting the objection. We struggled to make that payment for over a year, fired the lawyer, and reconverted successfully. Our trustee after conversion back to a 7 told us straight out we got screwed by the attorney, as we never should've been in a 13. We were old law, though. After the change, I don't know if I would so it on my own because the means test scares the crap out of me

[CindyLou]

I filed pro se but with the old law. I used a paralegal to fill out the forms.

I would not file pro se under the new law unless you are well under the median and SURE you aren't close to being put into a 13.

[MajorMike]

VERY well said FLAD!!!!

MajorMike, I respect your feelings in this, but if you get the wrong atty you'll be "dealing" with a great deal more than just a bankruptcy. There are mediocre and even bad attorneys out there who have cost filers everything they own and then some, through no fault of their own.

This is why I encourage everyone to get as educated as they can about bk even if they get an atty, because it's YOUR finances, YOUR future on the line, not theirs. Many people here have, by educating themselves on the process, saved their own bk from the errors of incompetent attorneys. Read the posts, it's not uncommon. For instance, I can't even tell you how many "My filing has errors, my 341 is in [days/hours/minutes], and my atty won't return my calls!!!" posts I have read. And that's just the start.

Nothing against attorneys, and I don't want to come off that way, but blind, all-encompassing trust in an atty (or doctor, or other professional) is something I would NEVER recommend. Yes, you do have to trust them. But it's your life on the line, so get educated. THAT is the best $$$ you'll ever spend, because you'll help them and help yourself too.