I and J 900 negative

[monkatom]

As I mentioned in a previous post my attorney originally messed up the income part of the I and overstated wifes income. In order to pass the I and J I feel he took a little more liberty than I would like on the J. One example is 950 for food for a family of 4 with two dogs. So I pointed out to him the mistake on the I and asked him to lower the J. He had us sign docs since he said the schedules and signatures are on different pages and we were in a rush. He assured me he made all the changes I asked. He then filled, as the docs I had were preliminary ones mailed to my house for my review and signature.

I checked Pacer and it appears he chnaged the I and filled that correctly but the J is still high so Our balance becomes -900. Will the trutee have issues with this or start challenging our numbers for the J? My attorney says do not worry? BTW I am in California.

[jp2861]

I had the same thing happen to me. The lawyer, or his flunky paper processor, took the liberty to create a budget that was way off from what I gave them. They failed to consider the taxes that were being deducted off the top of my pension, and used a gross figure. Then they jacked up my expenses to cover it. I'm not sure if the income amount was supposed to gross or net ( Sch I ) but opted to use net, seeing as how I can't pay expenses out of money the gov't takes for taxes. Lawyer was clueless in this regard as well. So, I'm hoping the amendment doesn't start a shitstorm with the trustee. I guess time will tell.

As far as being -900, I still don't get that part. It would seem, on paper, that the first month out of bankruptcy you'd be right back in financial trouble again. I don't understand why being so far in the hole is an acceptable practice in the BK world. It seems what is acceptable to one trustee may not be with another. Alot of grey areas it seems. Just hope and pray everything goes through without being questioned.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Monkatom, seems to me you could go either way: press the atty to file an amended schedule, or wait until the 341 and explain it if asked. California is an expensive state to live in, so maybe -900 isn't all that much to a trustee, but if you choose to wait until the 341, determine now to explain it as an error and tell how it happened. If your 341 is less than two weeks away, I'd say wait. If it's a month away, you might want to go ahead and take care of it now.

The atty works for you; if you insist on an amendment he pretty much has to do one for you or flat out refuse, which is a whole 'nother story. If you want an amendment and think you will have to force the issue with the atty, download Form 6, redo Schedule J by hand, and tell him: THIS is what I want filed. He might not like it, but in the end he'll hand it to the paralegal and it'll get done. Keep a copy, so you know what you gave him.

But the mere fact that it is an error means, right off the bat, that you cannot answer "yes" to the "Is everything true and correct?" question, which would make me nervous. Good luck!!!

[monkatom]

Thanks the 341 is March 24 so plenty of time, and I had given him a new filled out J and he did not make teh changes. I will look it over and see if it is really out of whack. I guess I felt it strange he added items I would bever come up with like dry cleaing and personal hygiene items which I bever added to the sch J when I gave it to him.

[monkatom]

Has anyone else filled in San Diego or southern california and if so what did they use for food on Schedule J? My attorney wrote me back and said he wants to leave the numbers as is because he does not think it best to do an amendment. He also said he felt the numbers were good and the trustee would not bat an eye about us being -950. Any suggestions as if I should push the attorney to amend or if the trustee asks says these are our actual expenses but we wre trying to bring the costs down????

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Monkatom, the more you write about this, the more my gut says that you should push for an amendment. Dry cleaning, personal hygeine and the like are great, but make sure they reflect your reality. Another thing that JP broght up, above, is that your trustee would have some questions about your ability to be self-sufficient *after* the bk: if you're almost a grand in the hole every month, what's keeping you from coming back? So I do actually believe you should push for an amendment.

As for the food amount, I personally would use either actual or a close ballpark guess. I don't think I would box myself into having to lie for the attorney by using a grossly overinflated figure that I knew upfront to be nowhere near the reality of my actual expenses. You should still come in with no disposable income. (Keep in mind that my trustee wanted check registers for the past year, so what I spent on food was very obvious to him regardless. Yours may not go this far, but if there's any chance you will have to substantiate the numbers... I think you see my point. )

Since you already submitted a CORRECT Schedule J to this atty, one option might be to send him a copy in a certified letter that is very nice and non-accusatory, but says again: FILE THIS AS IS. In return, you get no arguing, proof for the trustee if needed (like, you get to 341 and atty still hasn't corrected the filing), and the atty knows you mean business. You may want to try lesser tactics first, like another call, but if he just balks or you see no action this is how I might approach it.

While the atty may be right about the trustee "not batting an eye" at the -$950, if he's wrong who pays? You or him? That's a helluva chance to take, Monk.

[monkatom]

Thanks my gut keep saying we should change it to more realistic numbers which I came up with. My numbers were still negative but nowhere near -950. I will call him on Monday and say I am uncomfortable with the J and would like to amend it. Thanks again for the help and support.