if you are below the median... how important is?

[Knew_it_all]

First, thanks for the link....Second, please don't take this the wrong way, but you are reading his statements incorrectly and consequently drawing inaccuarate conclusions..(one will indeed follow the another). Attorneys will have reading comprehension skills, analytical reasoning skills, and logical reasoning skills that are much higher than the general population. That isn't just my opinion, it is the statistical fall-out of requiring all law students to take the LSAT exam...

Back to your link: Absolutely no statement in that article says "If you are below the median income you can be pushed into a Chapter 13..." But, maybe it <implies> that can happen, right?...Let's look at some of the statements from the article in detail, specifically the statement that you pasted above: The bad news is that the new laws essentially require the bankruptcy court to presume that you are not eligible to file for a Chapter 7 bankruptcy if your current monthly income should, after deducting permissible expense amounts, leave you with at least $100 per month to be repaid to your creditors. In such cases, you will have to repay at least $6,000 over as long as five years through a Chapter 13.

The key to understanding that statement is the area right here: you are not eligible to file for a Chapter 7 bankruptcy if your current monthly income should, after deducting permissible expense amounts ........Do you see it?

If you are going to <deduct permissible expenses> you have gone PAST line 15 on the Means Test...which indicates you are OVER the median. Remember, on the Means Test once you are under the median on line 15 you to right to part VIII which is where you do nothing but date and sign the form...and hand it in for your Chapter 7!!!

Your point is also hinged I presume on the second statement you pasted. And even if your income falls below the state median, the court may still dismiss your case for “abuse”. That seems to support you position...However, when evaluated within the context of the article (written for lay persons) it becomes clear that he is talking about income that has been <reduced by permissible expenses> thus, putting an over the median income petitioner under the median income and allowing a Chapter 7 case to go forward. Of course he is abolutely correct in stating that is NOT a slam-dunk Chapter 7 gimmie...and there could be abuse..

[jp2861]

Still waiting for the stats that nobody under the median has ever been pushed into a 13.

Also, curious to hear the reason why an I and J is needed when someone is under the median.

KIA...I'm sure if you're posting this you have some sort of way to back it up. I'm sure it will make good reading and clear up the matter. Please post so we may all know the real deal as you present it.

[keepmine]

I'm reading his statements correctly.
First of all, the code does allow for a conversion to a Chapter 13 if sufficent disposable income is available. Secondly, Schedule J asks for actual expenses.Not, IRS standards. If you don't pay rent or utilities, you're not going going to be allowed to claim it as a legimate expense.
Say, a petitoner makes $20K/year and is well under the median. He/she also lives with family and pays no rent, utilities,etc. There is no way a trustee will allow a filer to discharge their debts and immediately start putting $20K in the bank. That won't happen without the trustee playing the substantial abuse card.
And frankly, this is about the only possible situation I can think off where a below median filer will have problems. If you're below the median and supporting a household you very likely have enough expenses that no disposable income is available to fund a Chapter 13.
The point several of are trying to make is, while very rare-it can happen.