BK = Divorce?

[toomuch]

We haven't even filed for BK yet and the strain on our marriage is intense. Hubby is just falling apart. I am trying to keep it all together.....keep his spirits up.....cook his favorite dinners.....give him plenty of *me* time.... and it's not enough. I can sense he is getting ready to hit the road. He's like a time bomb.

He is an only child, who's parents got him out of every jam he was ever in, and now at 54, they aren't able to do that. I keep telling him it's not the end of the world, that we will survive this. We've been married for 20 years. No children together but 2 each from previous marriages.

For selfish reasons (I have cancer and cardiomyopathy), I need his insurance...and yes, income. I can't work.

I don't usually air dirty laundry, but no one knows me here. I feel like I should be planning a course of action to protect myself, but will have to see a good lawyer for that. It won't matter if he drops out of thin air and he could very well do that. He doesn't care about the house, or any material things except his car.

Just wondering what the statistics of BK and divorce are and how in the world can one keep the other's morale up during this process? They started garnishing his wages this week....took 219 out of his paycheck. I'm sure that does cause a lot of frustration for him. It does for me too. But we have to keep our wits about us. The rough part hasn't even started yet (chapter 13)

I feel like getting in my car and just driving and never look back. Of course that is ridiculous. I know I can't be the only one in this situation but I also know a lot of people don't like to talk about personal stuff like this.

This BK sucks. I wish to God I never saw a credit card.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Toomuch

[FreshLikeADaisy]

I don't usually air dirty laundry, but no one knows me here.

It's all good. You came to the right place.

I think you're right, bk and divorce go hand in hand. But I don't think you can keep him from leaving, if he feels like you are the source of his problems. I have known people that always got bailed out by their folks, and unfortunately, you're right, that doesn't create a lot of staying power in them. What it creates is people who are very skilled in looking for others who can be manipulated into getting them out of the next jam. I'm not saying that your husband is like that, but I do think it would be wise to start seriously looking at what you might be able to do if he up and left. Seeing an attorney is good, but there are other things, like figuring out who you could stay with, what assets are in both your names, what assets you could easily sell if he left, what you might be able to do part-time, what assistance you might be eligible for, etc. You can start researching that yourself, right now, even online. Google is your best friend.

You also need to be clear on what debts are his, what debts are yours, and what debts are joint. You need to know what exactly is going on with all of that, every detail. And pull his credit report immediately, if you haven't already, as well as your own: you need to be sure, NOW, that there isn't more debt out there you have no knowledge of. You don't want to be one of those people whose spouse left only to find after they're gone that it was a HELL of a lot worse than you thought. It's ugly, it is tremendously hard to do, but look into this. Dont leave yourself open to surprises!

Also, are you possibly eligible for Ch7? It's a much easier road in certain respects than a 13, though if you have assets to protect that may not be in your best interest. Don't let an attorney talk you into a 13 if you are actually eligible for a 7; it may be better for him but not necessarily better for you.

Also, if hubby up and leaves after you have jointly filed for Ch13, that is going to impact you VERY negatively. Failure to make plan payments will get your Ch13 dismissed, and you can't convert to Ch7 by yourself if you filed jointly. (I may be wrong on that, hopefully someone will step in and correct me, but if you file jointly you have to convert jointly, as far as I know.) When you see an attorney, ask him about all this. If you honestly think there's a chance hubby will leave during the 3 or 5 year payback of a 13, DON'T file with him. You would very much be eligible for a 7 on your own with no income. If you are seeing a bk attorney now, you could ask him this question privately.

Unfortunately I have never known someone with that strong a gut feeling who did not have justification for feeling that way, even if their prediction didn't come true. If you prepare yourself for his departure, and he stays, you're ahead of the game. If you stick your head in the sand and hope he doesn't, but then he does, you are going to be FAR worse off for it. Sounds like you at least have a capable head on your shoulders and are able to face up to this mess, as bad as it seems. I wish you the very best. Good luck!!!

[Lindsay]

I'm planning to divorce my husband in several years. I'm waiting until the youngest child (he's 14) gets a little older. My husband is a moody, miserable jerk who has made my life utter hell for the past 17 years. He doesn't talk to me or the kids. All he does is eat and watch television. The only time he talks to us is to scream about something. We haven't been intimate with each other in 5 years! It wasn't me that caused that situation, he refuses and claims to hate sex. I know, that's real personal! He tells me that he's "just along for the ride" in our marriage. His total refusal to talk about finance/money is what led to our bankrupt state as well. Everytime I tried to talk to him about it, he's screamed so loud that I wouldn't bring it up again for a year!

You do need to get your ducks in order. About 18 months ago, I went back to college. It's been slightly empowering, but I've still got to look at him everyday (and this is a real drag, trust me). The biggest hurdle I face is that I have a phobia of driving and do not have a driver's license. I need to get that this spring. I'm really scared, but its the only way that I'll be able to acheive a life of freedom someday. I'm planning on taking lessons once this BK is over and I have extra money. Even if you can't work, there can be jobs you can do from home like eBay or some of the work at home jobs like LiveOps, ect. Or maybe you can find a way to get some disability or state assistance. Some states offer insurance for adults if they don't have any. You should check out resources in advance, just in case.

I'm not sure if you still love your husband. I've been way beyond love for several years. It actually makes me feel sick to look at him now. Maybe your husband will act better after the BK is started and he'll feel a little relief? Did he used to be a good husband before this mess started?

I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time, but you are not alone. (((((Hugs))))))

[toomuch]

It's all good. You came to the right place.

I think you're right, bk and divorce go hand in hand. But I don't think you can keep him from leaving, if he feels like you are the source of his problems. I have known people that always got bailed out by their folks, and unfortunately, you're right, that doesn't create a lot of staying power in them. What it creates is people who are very skilled in looking for others who can be manipulated into getting them out of the next jam. I'm not saying that your husband is like that, but I do think it would be wise to start seriously looking at what you might be able to do if he up and left. Seeing an attorney is good, but there are other things, like figuring out who you could stay with, what assets are in both your names, what assets you could easily sell if he left, what you might be able to do part-time, what assistance you might be eligible for, etc. You can start researching that yourself, right now, even online. Google is your best friend.

You also need to be clear on what debts are his, what debts are yours, and what debts are joint. You need to know what exactly is going on with all of that, every detail. And pull his credit report immediately, if you haven't already, as well as your own: you need to be sure, NOW, that there isn't more debt out there you have no knowledge of. You don't want to be one of those people whose spouse left only to find after they're gone that it was a HELL of a lot worse than you thought. It's ugly, it is tremendously hard to do, but look into this. Dont leave yourself open to surprises!

Also, are you possibly eligible for Ch7? It's a much easier road in certain respects than a 13, though if you have assets to protect that may not be in your best interest. Don't let an attorney talk you into a 13 if you are actually eligible for a 7; it may be better for him but not necessarily better for you.

Also, if hubby up and leaves after you have jointly filed for Ch13, that is going to impact you VERY negatively. Failure to make plan payments will get your Ch13 dismissed, and you can't convert to Ch7 by yourself if you filed jointly. (I may be wrong on that, hopefully someone will step in and correct me, but if you file jointly you have to convert jointly, as far as I know.) When you see an attorney, ask him about all this. If you honestly think there's a chance hubby will leave during the 3 or 5 year payback of a 13, DON'T file with him. You would very much be eligible for a 7 on your own with no income. If you are seeing a bk attorney now, you could ask him this question privately.

Unfortunately I have never known someone with that strong a gut feeling who did not have justification for feeling that way, even if their prediction didn't come true. If you prepare yourself for his departure, and he stays, you're ahead of the game. If you stick your head in the sand and hope he doesn't, but then he does, you are going to be FAR worse off for it. Sounds like you at least have a capable head on your shoulders and are able to face up to this mess, as bad as it seems. I wish you the very best. Good luck!!!

THANK YOU so much for your response, Fresh! I am sitting in my room, googling like crazy (Yes, google is my best friend ), just grasping at straws.

The first attorney I had a consult with said I could file a 7 and hubby a 13. I have my own debt and he has his. The mortgage is in his name but I am on the deed. From what I have read on this board, if I filed a 7, I have to include his income, so I couldn't file a 7. He makes over the state median by himself. I no longer work, as I said, due to cancer and a bad heart. I would file for a 7 in a heartbeat if I could. I am convinced now (thank you) that I must file separately, somehow. However, I do want to keep the house. I'm 54 and it's the only one I've ever owned. We were in our late 40's before becoming first time home owners. How pathetic is that?? The interest rate is 5.5 %. I couldn't rent anything for what I pay here.

I have a car that my stepfather just cosigned for me to get. I gave up my car last year. Hubby kept his. Then he let it go back and his mom bought him a car in her name...he's on the insurance (he did this without telling me) but he makes payments on it.

I am walking on eggshells tonight because he is a loose cannon. I don't think he would hurt me physically, but I really need to, like you said, get my ducks in a row before he bolts.

It's a big mess. I don't even know where to start until I see a lawyer.

All week long he has been wanting to go look at plasma tv's

Thanks for the advice.....and the shoulder.

Toomuch

[toomuch]

I'm planning to divorce my husband in several years. I'm waiting until the youngest child (he's 14) gets a little older. My husband is a moody, miserable jerk who has made my life utter hell for the past 17 years. He doesn't talk to me or the kids. All he does is eat and watch television. The only time he talks to us is to scream about something. We haven't been intimate with each other in 5 years! It wasn't me that caused that situation, he refuses and claims to hate sex. I know, that's real personal! He tells me that he's "just along for the ride" in our marriage. His total refusal to talk about finance/money is what led to our bankrupt state as well. Everytime I tried to talk to him about it, he's screamed so loud that I wouldn't bring it up again for a year!

You do need to get your ducks in order. About 18 months ago, I went back to college. It's been slightly empowering, but I've still got to look at him everyday (and this is a real drag, trust me). The biggest hurdle I face is that I have a phobia of driving and do not have a driver's license. I need to get that this spring. I'm really scared, but its the only way that I'll be able to acheive a life of freedom someday. I'm planning on taking lessons once this BK is over and I have extra money. Even if you can't work, there can be jobs you can do from home like eBay or some of the work at home jobs like LiveOps, ect. Or maybe you can find a way to get some disability or state assistance. Some states offer insurance for adults if they don't have any. You should check out resources in advance, just in case.

I'm not sure if you still love your husband. I've been way beyond love for several years. It actually makes me feel sick to look at him now. Maybe your husband will act better after the BK is started and he'll feel a little relief? Did he used to be a good husband before this mess started?

I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time, but you are not alone. (((((Hugs))))))

Lindsey, I am sorry you are having to deal with the same crap. Since you brought it up, I'll admit we have not shared the same bedroom in 10 years but that's because he snores and rocks the walls. We are intimate if I want to be, but he has never cared much for sex.

For the most part, I thought we got along pretty well. Maybe that's because he works 3rd shift and has since 1992. He sleeps, works, watches tv. He does have a nice workshop outback that he spends a lot of time in. I had cable run to it 2 years ago as a birthday gift to him. It was a gift to me as well.

I have to hire EVERYTHING out. He does nothing around the house and if I ask him, he says I'm nagging. I change all the lightbulbs, smoke alarm batteries, little things like that. I don't have the energy to rake leaves, or lift heavy things anymore.

He has been in outpatient drug rehab for 3 years because of his dependency on pain pills. That's the main thing that got us in the financial situation we're in. I can't prove it in court, but it is true.
I had to pay a lot of utilities and groceries with cc's because he would spend all of his paycheck on pills.

I can't believe I am writing all of this. I'm trying to find a forum for someone in my predicament, but it's so complicated that I'm having a tough time finding one.

Oh, and no, he never was a good husband but good enough that I stayed with him. I had a heart attack 7 years after we married and I have just hung in there with him. My Mom always said don't leave if you can't better yourself and I didn't think I could.

It will all work out. This past year I have been more spiritual and the closer I get with God, the worse my life seems. I know it's all for a reason.

Thanks for the support and I certainly wish you the best. I have a friend with a phobia of driving and every once in a while, she will let me take her out on some back roads so she can drive. I am determined she is going to get her license!!

Many blessings,

Toomuch

[SecondChanceGal]

##

[newbeginning]

Got to get my act together...I am a husband that has/had been becoming more and more "uninvolved" in my relationship with my beautiful and head-strong wife. My slow, but certain uninvolvement had almost everything to do with my feelings that she was not contributing to the general welfare (finances) of the family.

Recent discoveries have solidified my suspicion that we, as a family, were in deeper in trouble than the surface revealed. I am now planning for join-Chapter 7 as my wife recovers from metasticized breast cancer in the ICU. It has been a tremendous disappointment, the recent diagnoses of the tumors, the financial state that is in tatters (we agreed that she would be responsible for the finances as she worked PT) and the realization that my wife was too disheartened, ashamed to speak with me about the critical nature of our finances before it was TOO late.

Anyway, I could easily submit and maintain reasons to divorce her, but I DO LOVE HER DESPITE ALL THAT HAS HAPPENED. BTW, our financial situation was known to me before the diagnosis.

My primary solace is that she is improving. The "rest" is not nearly as important and will take care of itself in a sense.

I do feel for you ladies. Do what you can for yourselves and don't become any more of a victim than you already have been by having spouses that are not encouraging/supportive.

Getting back to my wife...

[tay666]

I can see the two going hand-in-hand.
I have a feeling my wife might be considering walking away after we finally file BK.
By the time we file and are discharged, she will be done with school and working again, so she could support herself. Our youngest child is 17 and finishing her JR year in high school this year. We won't have any joint assets or debts once the BK is done other than some of our belongings like furniture and stuff.
Things have been strained the past several months with our situation.
Her going to school and doing bunches of homework at night.
Me working a full time job, an occasional second on job mornings and weekends in constuction, as well as selling some stuff online to help make ends meet right now with her not working.
She's always complaining that we don't spend time together. Though when I try to sit and talk with her or spend time with her, she is too busy with homework, or not in the mood to talk. When she is finally ready to talk I am either usually busy getting financial information together for our BK or getting ready to leave for work.

Ever since she was diagnosed with a bipolar disorder in the summer of 06, things have been rough. After dealing with that, several hospital stays for her, the financial impact of her not being able to work, and finally getting her meds stabilized. I thought thngs were getting better.
But then the financial reality started setting in for her.
We can't afford to go out and eat, or shopping, or to do other things.
And I think she is just going stir crazy.

Hopefully she sticks around after things are all said and done.
Because they will get better. We will finally have a little extra money again to do some stuff together. We will have more time as I will only need to work my normal job, and she will just be putting in her 8 hours a day too. We won't have bill collectors calling, and I won't be stressing over all the planning for the BK
I keep telling her all these things, but she can't see them. She can't picture it.
She also won't even discuss the post BK budget planning I want to work on with her. To set down and decide where our money is to go.
I honestly don't want her to leave. We have been together for 20 years now and I don't want it to end. I can seriously picture myself spending the rest of my life with her.
But I still get the sense that she is tired of it all and really wants to start completely fresh when the BK is done. And that includes not having me around.

So I have been doing some mental planning on what I would do if that happens (god forbid). I have figured that I could swing it all on my income. A place to rent, big enough for me and my daughter, the utilities, gas moeny, groceries, etc. I could do it all on my own.
With not having the $150 a month in perscription co-pays for her meds, and the $240 a month in gas for her to drive back and forth to school, I would actually have a little spending money with my normal paycheck. OT and occasional side jobs would be all gravy and go into a savings acccount.

I don't want it to happen, and I hope it doesn't. And I am doing my best to be more attentive and trying to show her the upside.
But better to be prepaired for it than to be blind-sided by it.

[MaxedOut]

Why am I not surprised to hear any of this.

We are playing the blame game but trust me it is mostly his fault not working for most the year but spending money like he was. The whole time I knew we were headed for disaster but he's a know it all.

I am so seriously thinking of divorce we have 1 child left at home thats 11 but he s a bad influence on him anyway.

My husband is on the otherside of the spectrum I he wan ts sex every night of the week butI don't because I am tired I work all day as does he but I still take care of our son and do household duties that he does not.

He will bug the daylights out of me all week, finally when the weekend comes and I'm rested I really don't want anyting t do with him.

Not to mention every time I look at him it almost makes me sick all of this credit he was runnin a muck on when he was unemployed is in my name not his.

Yes he is a Jerk and, I am really starting to not like him and Divorce is in are future.


This is what he said that makes me really not like him after all these years.

I complained when he wasn't working that he needed to find another job he procrastenated for several months while I was maxing out some of my cards to keep us above water and we were going deepernto debt. When I complained he said to me "Well I supported you for several years you didn't hear me complaining" I could not blieve he threw that in my face.

I'm done with him : )

Sorry everyone else is having problems. I guess sometimes hard times and money bring out the worst in people and add to the problems that are already there.

Thanks for allowing me to vent as well.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

The first attorney I had a consult with said I could file a 7 and hubby a 13. I have my own debt and he has his. The mortgage is in his name but I am on the deed. From what I have read on this board, if I filed a 7, I have to include his income, so I couldn't file a 7. He makes over the state median by himself. I no longer work, as I said, due to cancer and a bad heart. I would file for a 7 in a heartbeat if I could. I am convinced now (thank you) that I must file separately, somehow. However, I do want to keep the house. I'm 54 and it's the only one I've ever owned. We were in our late 40's before becoming first time home owners. How pathetic is that?? The interest rate is 5.5 %. I couldn't rent anything for what I pay here.

No, it's not pathetic at all! You'd be amazed at how late some people actually get to own homes, even in seemingly "affordable" areas. And actually, it will work out for you better in a Ch7, because there is less equity for you to try to have to save (exempt) and a much better chance you can keep the house. So what you thought was bad may actually be very much in your favor...

But what really gets me about what you wrote is that I think you're not getting completely good info on the Ch7. Not that your attorney is holding out on you, but that no one who has advised you so far is figuring in how all this works if hubby leaves. For instance, if you are separated, and hubby's income is no longer available to you, or maybe you're receiving some small pittance in support, the entirety of his income does NOT apply in a Ch7. That's where your attorney comes in. Since you've already seen a bk atty, and he has counseled you jointly, feel free to call his office *privately* to ask him some addl questions... the ones that don't include hubby. Or start fresh with another atty, if you like. No reason why you can't call around and get some free bk atty consults of your own, without hubby's knowledge.

I have a car that my stepfather just cosigned for me to get. I gave up my car last year. Hubby kept his. Then he let it go back and his mom bought him a car in her name...he's on the insurance (he did this without telling me) but he makes payments on it.

It does almost seem like hubby's been planning something for a while, if he's placing his most prized asset in mama's name. Unfortunately for him, this is exactly what would thwart a Ch7 for him, even if he were eligible: that sort of title shenanigans is what would get his filing pegged as fraudulent. It's not a big deal in a 13, because you're still technically paying your creditors, but in a 7 it would hurt him tremendously. My trustee (I'm in a 7) wanted not only the titles, but the insurance declarations pages for everything.

The good news is that in a way, you are *much* better positioned to make (and take full advantage of) a fresh start than your husband is.

May I say something? Please take this with a grain of salt, because only you know what your situation is, but... if he is truly a loose cannon, seething with resentment or anger, full of hidden plans, whatever... I know you're trying to keep it together and be a good wife, but an emotional step back or two or three might be just the thing, and not worrying so much about being there for him. That he is not there for you rings loud and clear in everything you write. I just think that as you re-evaluate your physical and financial assets, it may be time to re-evaluate your emotional and spiritual assets as well -- and even *redistribute* them as necessary. I think YOU are worth every ounce of strength, every bit of energy that you can muster... don't easily be parted from it, especially now.

God bless you!!! I wish you all the best!!!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Lindsay... when you have your divorce party, and you will, make it huge. You're already becoming free, and when you're ready to take that step, all of this waiting and planning will pay off for you so big. I think your new life will be *awesome*.