Notice of Financial Management Course Completion Certificate Overdue

[JasonK94Z]

Great! I took the damn course on time. I check PACER and see that no one turned in my certificate. So either the place online I did my course at dropped the ball, or my attorney did.

I can't imagine what the consiquences are going to be now. All i know is, this will not cost me another penny out of my pocket!!

[JasonK94Z]

Just got off the phone with Fresh Start Online. They did email the certificates of completion to my attorney, and have record of it. So I guess my attorney has dropped the ball. A phone call will be in order for them people tomorrow. This sucks!

[Lindsay]

Will you still have time to resend it? I'd get that lawyer to fax it over tomorrow.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Lindsay, just so you know, it can't be "faxed" as you would fax something to someone else; it has to be filed with the court, along with the accompanying form (Form 23?) as part of the case. It's just as fast, though, because the attorney files electronically. The attorney should have done this as soon as the course was completed, as Jason pointed out.

Not sure what happens from here, though. I hope it's not an automatic dismissal. Good luck!!!

[Lindsay]

Daisy, would you have some recourse if the lawyer was the one who messed up? I'm just seeing the lawyer tomorrow and it makes me nervous that someone could actually get their BK dismissed because the lawyer did something wrong.

[jp2861]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but if someone owed you money you'd be on the phone following up. This is no different. None of us can depend on lawyers to make sure this stuff is done. You would think that we hire these lawyers to make sure things get done properly and on time, but not following up just doesn't make sense. I hope you get this straightened out and all turns out ok for you.

Let this be a lesson for us all to stay on top of the attorneys and their so-called assistants.

[JasonK94Z]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but if someone owed you money you'd be on the phone following up. This is no different. None of us can depend on lawyers to make sure this stuff is done. You would think that we hire these lawyers to make sure things get done properly and on time, but not following up just doesn't make sense. I hope you get this straightened out and all turns out ok for you.

Let this be a lesson for us all to stay on top of the attorneys and their so-called assistants.

I understand what your saying, but if I pay a professional to do something for me, I shouldn't have to follow up! I paid hard earned money for them to take care of me. Its their job!

[jrsmom]

Little story about following up with Atty and lesson learned. Atty was supposed to file bk7 in November and didn't, then said she would in December and didn't, then said she'd file first of January. She finally filed AFTER car was repossessed. Cost to attorney = $0, cost to my daughter to get her car back 3 payments + repo costs + $150 to Western Union to wire $ to lender. Had daughter been more agressive with atty, perhaps this would have been avoided. Lesson learned, you HAVE TO BE PROACTIVE about this whole process!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Jason, I looked into it and I think that you should -- TODAY -- get a copy of that debt mgmt certificate, fill out Form 23 (by hand, if you have to), sign it, and file it at the courthouse. You can download the form from uscourts.gov, and it's a simple one page deal. You take the completed Form 23 and the copy of the certificate down to the courthouse (leave everything but your keys behind in the car when you go; you can't take cell phones, etc into a federal courthouse) find the bankruptcy clerk, and when you get up there, hand the papers to him and tell him, "I need to file these." They'll look at them, say, "Okay," and you're out of there. It'll take a couple of days to show up on PACER because you filed it by paper yourself, but at least it will be done. If you take a second copy of your Form 23, they can stamp it for you to keep, so you have proof you filed it on __ date, even though it's not in PACER yet.

You could trust your attorney to file it (again) but on the other hand you can do it yourself and KNOW it's done. The reason I say go ahead and do it is because the case is still open, and that notice you received should tell you how much time you have to correct it. People who have gotten into this situation and had their cases dismissed, reopen the case just to file this certificate according to the Nolo book. So I say, if the case is still open, file it yourself, today.

Lindsay, yes, but it's not automatic and there are no guarantees. If Jason takes care of this now, he hasn't really lost anything (thank God) so it's not really worth pursuing. Let's say his bk case gets dismissed for lack of these docs, though, for argument's sake. While he could certainly file a complaint against his lawyer with the bar association, that would not rectify the situation with the bankruptcy case, nor would a complaint get him back any lost fees, money for damages, etc. What he would have to do is hire a new lawyer to reopen the bk and deal with the missing items, and have the new attorney also go after him for unearned fees, etc. But that's a hard road, and no guarantees.

Jason, I don't want to sound unkind, but while it is certainly their job to follow up (no one, but no one here disputes that!) it is YOUR bankruptcy on the line. That "I shouldn't have to" attitude, though certainly warranted, isn't going to help you. Whether you should or not, you have to. Like Jrsmom pointed out above, it doesn't cost your attorney a thing to screw your case up for you, but it costs you plenty to straighten it out. You're VERY lucky you're in a situation where you can still rescue your bk -- many people have had theirs dismissed altogether and lost all manner of property, assets, etc because the attorney didn't file in time, filed negligently, whatever. So even though you *shouldn't have to* follow up, it's in your best interest to do so, as you have already seen, and keep on your attorney when something isn't done, or isn't done right. Good luck!

P.S. Here's the link to Form 23 if you want it:

http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_Forms_1207/B_023_1207f.pdf

[FreshLikeADaisy]

P.S. Lindsay, I forgot to add this, but you're actually in a much better position not to get screwed by an inattentive/incompetent attorney, because you're here learning and making an effort to be informed about the process. I bet you have read other things as well, and are really trying to stay on top of it. That right there is your best guarantee that your attorney will not misrepresent you, because you will already know what the process is.

The other thing is that you need to get yourself a PACER account at some point (see the stickys for more info on that) so that when your attorney files for you, you can see EXACTLY what he filed and when. That's especially important just after you file, just before and after your 341, and around 60 days thereafter for closing and discharge. In between you don't have to worry about it so much. Also, with PACER, you can see notices like the one Jason got as soon as the trustee files them with the court.

Don't be too worried, there are a lot of good attorneys out there. But there are also a LOT of people on this board who have saved their bk by being on top of things their attorney had let slide, so... being informed is your best defense. Good luck!!!

[JasonK94Z]

My lawyer took care of the situation today. The court was ok with it being turned in today and things will resume as normal. The case should be discharged and closed very soon now.

[ameliabedilia]

I made a totally dumb mistake myself. I wrote the wrong date on the calendar that the financial course was due and I looked up Saturday and it is 7 days after the 45 days from the 341. I was freaking out!!!
I called the clerk this morning and let them know that I would be overnighting it today. The clerk was sweet and said she would put a note on the file so it wouldn't get closed.