How to Get Accurate Amounts on Credit Card Debts for BK petition?

[Lindsay]

When I stopped paying the creditors, I owed around $70,000. Of course, the creditors have been having a field day adding late fees, 30% monthly interest and now over-the-limit fees. Everytime I look, the bills is much larger now. I was wondering how I can get an accurate number to put on paper for the lawyer. One of the creditors told me that they're adding $750 in interest every month, plus $80 in fees. What if I put down $7500 for a creditor but by the time the petition is filed, it jumps to $8000? Will they only discharge the amount on the petition and I'll have to pay the other amount? Will I have to pay extra to amend the petition?

Also, some of the accounts have been placed with a collection agency. Do I have to list them on the petition too or just the original creditor? My concern is that if I list the original creditor and the collection agency as well, will the debt show up twice and it will appear that I owe $150,000 in debts?

It's time to see the lawyer now. I've waited and endured 6 months of creditor collection calls. We have not used any of our cards in 7 months. I'm really getting scared that I'll screw up something and we'll get dismissed. I have to get all this information ready for the lawyer and I'm so nervous! We're probably going to retain the lawyer in the next week or so and pay him off over the next few months. We probably won't actually file the BK until March.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Lindsay, I had the same problem; all of my charges are at least a year old now, I quit paying them then as well, and I only declared bk this month. And there was NO WAY, and I do mean NO WAY, that I was actually going to pick up the phone and speak with them of my own volition. So I just used the figure they reported on my credit bureau, added $1000, and put the notation "approximate" when I listed it on Schedule F.

I have no worries that it'll fly: they were notified, and I got it close enough. There's no law that says you have to be exact to the day. Just give them the best figure you have, and if they're adding fees/interest exponentially as they were with me, add a grand or so. They'll catch up to your estimate real fast, believe me.

Note that you can also list debts that you know exist, but aren't sure what the dollar amount is, such as an unliquidated foreclosure where you don't know what the amount of the deficiency judgement will be because the mortgage company has not yet gotten the actual judgement. You just list it as with any other debt, and then make a notation on there that it is approximate and why.

[lrprn]

Fresh is right. The amount you or your lawyer will put on the creditors' list are typically whatever is on the last bill you receive from active accounts and 'best guesses' on inactive accounts that you still owe on. No one can tell to the penny what is owed on filing day. Don't sweat it - just give your lawyer whatever you have.

[erinmi]

Our lawyer told us just to go with the amount on our most recent bill. He said what matters is getting every creditor listed you want discharged and their mailing addresses (not bill payment addresses).

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Erinmi, you're right: it's much worse to leave a creditor off the matrix than it is to lowball the amount of the debt on the schedules. A mistaken estimate on a schedule will not prevent the discharge of the debt, but leaving a creditor off the matrix or listing the wrong address for a creditor actually can.

[Lindsay]

Thanks so much for all the replies! I was really worried about this as everytime I look, the figure jumps higher! Some of the creditors aren't even sending statements anymore, I'm assuming that after they place it with a collection agency, the figure stays the same?

Does anyone know if the billing address on the credit card statement is the one I give the lawyer? I'm trying to make up a printed sheet on Microsoft Word with our creditors, account numbers, addresses and total owed.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Lindsay, there should be an address for correspondence on every bill (like where you would send a change of address or a letter to) and that's what you want for the matrix. Also, for my big debts I called as well, sometimes getting a different mailing address where they wanted a bankruptcy notice sent, so I ended up with two or three addresses for the bigger creditors. No worries, I just listed them all.

[Lindsay]

Daisy, when you list duplicate addresses, does it repeat the debt on the matrix? If I listed 3 addresses for Citibank, would the debt show up 3 times? I know this is a silly question, but I'm worried about it.

[stljohn]

Again, the important thing is to list the creditor and its the account number thats the unique thing not the address. I had 3 cards through Citi; 2 were the same address the other was different but all 3 are listed.

Don't obsess on the numbers; as long as you are in the park for purposes of the lawyer's calculation you're fine. If the creditor chooses to file (and they all won't) they will provide what they believe to be the current number.

Recommend getting a 3 bureau report to make sure you arent missing any accounts and you can get current outstanding balances.

[magyar123]

As far as i know each credit card co lists their payment center address and their customer service address on the monthly statement. My Orchard bank payments go to somewhere in southern California, but the customer service address is soewhere here in northern California. And HSBC which runs Orchard is headquartered somewhere on the East Coast.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Basically, the matrix is for all your creditors, and as many addresses as you have. So yes, the creditors will be duplicated on the matrix, and that's actually a good thing: if the same creditor gets sent three notices at three different addresses that THEY provided (you called, you looked at the bill, you got a dunning letter, etc) it's going to be incredibly difficult for them to claim that they failed to receive notification, and thus reopen your bankruptcy at some future date. So the more addresses the better.

On the other hand, it does get important on the schedules not to duplicate actual debts (thus making it appear that your total indebtedness is much higher than it actually is) and to have your schedules match your matrix. Since you're going to have an attorney file your papers, you won't have to worry about this; he will take care of it. But definitely give him every address you have, and when you do, make a note of which creditors belong to which debt.

For instance, if an original creditor (OC: the one who originally gave you the money) is ABC Co., and they hire a collection agency, XYZ, Inc., to come after you when yu don't pay as agreed, give your attorney both addresses and make a note somewhere that XYZ is a collections agency for ABC. In the same way, if you have four addresses for Capital One, give him all four, and make a notation that they are for the same OC. This will enable him to do your schedules exactly right.

Take a look at this thread for further info on the schedules:

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=19952