Deep Breath...Here it goes

[epiphany]

Hello.

I just decided to go BK a little over a week ago. I think I qualify for a Chapter 7---my income is easily under the median. I owe about 60K on unsecured loans, no secured loans and have no assets, except for a paid for (old) car. I made about 28,000 in 2005 and still need to do my taxes for 2006 but they can't be much different. 2007 won't differ that much either.

I read what seems like a bazillion posts in an effort not to duplicate questions that have already asked so please forgive me if any of mine already have been answered.

I don't want to bombard you with all the questions I have all at once so will concentrate at one at a time.

A few days ago I received my first letter from an outside collection agency. All the required jargon was included. I have received two voice mails from this agency and today I call my sister in law to tell her I will be there for Xmas dinner and she tells me that she had a strange phone call for me over there a couple days ago. The caller left the name and number. (but not that they were a collection agency---still I think this may violate the FFPDA by leaving the number with a third party and asking me to call?).

I called the number today and it was the infamous credit agency but the office was closed. The caller told my sister in law that I had left that as a secondary number. I am quite sure that I have NEVER used any of my family as a reference and even more sure that I have NEVER left it as a "secondary" number.

So, how did they get the number? This I wonder. I intend to call them on Weds and tell them not to contact me, or anyone I know, by phone, and to business with only me by mail. I haven't had time to respond to their letter yet. I do intend to do that by certified mail, return receipt requested. (including a cease and desist from calling me and others) There is wonderful information on this site on how to respond that I am going to follow, but my question is this:

Am I, could I be, commiting fraud by disputing a claim I know to be mine? Or am I simply asking for validation by disputing the claim?

I do want the validation, plus need to stall them. I have my first consult with an attorney on Weds but have no idea if I will retain him or not. And I especially need to get them to cease calling others in regards to my debt. No one knows and I'd like to keep it that way. Though I am guessing I will be asked about that mysterious phone call----I hate lying.

Well, I don't expect a quick response, it's Xmas after all, and I hope that everyone has a really wonderful holiday.

Thanks for any help you can offer. Unfortunately for you, I have MORE questions coming up.

EP

[keepmine]

There is no fraud in aking them to refresh your memory. The FGDCPA gives consumers that right. Validate away.
They may contact 3rd parties to get location information and ask to leave a message. They just can't discuss the debt.
Also, don't include a total C&D with a request for validation. If you do, they'll claim they can't contact you for any reason including validating. The only recourse left will be to sue you.
Send the letter demanding validation and say the only acceptable avenue of communication is, the the mail. Tell them they have your location information and there is no need to contact 3rd parties.Only use a total C&D if you're going to be filing in 60-90 days.

[jp2861]

Keepmine has you pretty much on course. Even though you feel the debt is legit you still want to validate it to make sure. Make sure the debt is yours and not someone with the same name, as well as have them itemize the amount. Plus, it's your right to validate regardless. Once you get the validation back, or you could even send now, a "do not call" letter. This will keep them from calling you and other people but still leave the door open for written communication. After that it's pretty much a wait and see game.

[epiphany]

Thank you both. I appreciate your sound advice.

Gotta call the collection agency today and not looking forward to it. But I am armed with knowledge now and know how to (and how not to) respond.

This board rocks.

EP

[epiphany]

I didn't get up the nerve to call the collection agency until today but call them I did after receiving another message on my voicemail. I asked for the guys name and the fax number and told the guy that I was in the process of disputing the debt and that they would be receiving a letter shortly. The only thing he asked me is if I was disputing the whole debt or part of the debt. I told him that I was requesting validation on the entire amount.

I then made him confirm my address and phone number and told him that since they had the correct location information, they must not contact anyone else, including family, friends or employer about this debt. He asked me what had happened like he knew nothing about it and I told him that they had contacted a member of my family at a place that I do not reside. He said that they had been trying to contact me since the 14th. I told him that was not true---the first message I received was last Thursday or Friday. He said he wasn't going to argue with me and he didn't.

I also told him that all future communication with me must be by USPS mail only and he said that that would not happen until after they receive my letter. Fine, that's going out Saturday.

You know, I was scared to death to call but it was easy. Thanks to this forum, I knew exactly what to say and was not argued with. Even when the guy said he wasn't going to argue with me, he was civil. Maybe I just got lucky.

Anyway, thanks. Next question coming soon!

EP

[Lindsay]

EP, I used to cry everytime I talked to a collection agent. They'd usually end up comforting me! Now I'm more comfortable talking to them after what I've read online. One got a little frisky with me today and he stopped the nonsense once he knew I was informed about the laws. Did you ever find out how they got the number of your relatives? That's really scary!

[epiphany]

EP, I used to cry everytime I talked to a collection agent. They'd usually end up comforting me! Now I'm more comfortable talking to them after what I've read online. One got a little frisky with me today and he stopped the nonsense once he knew I was informed about the laws. Did you ever find out how they got the number of your relatives? That's really scary!

Hi Lindsay. No, I have no idea how they got that number. I really don't believe that I have ever used my family for references and I don't think that I had to list any references for this particular credit card...guess I will find out when (if) they send me a copy of the application...I am requesting everything in my validation.

The only other thing I can think of is that they might have done a search for my last name, which is not unheard of but not all that common, in the area. The relative they called is only about 5 miles from me. I just hope they don't call them again! Then I will definitely cry.

EP

[FreshLikeADaisy]

When they do skip tracing they generally come across names and addresses of relatives. It's not just about you and your info, but they may do something like track down a past address on your credit bureau and find out that a relative still lives there. It's pretty common. Private investigators make a good living at skip traces and large creditors do their own skip traces in house, it's not all that hard to do.

[epiphany]

Hmmmm....I have never heard of skip tracing before but ya know, now that I think about it, my brother did co-sign for a long ago paid off car (paid off maybe 5 years ago....never any defaults of problems with that loan.) He is not still at the same address but the phone number is the same....could that be how they got it?

Thanks, FLAD...makes sense.

EP

[Lindsay]

I had a skip tracer call our house to verify our address. I looked up the number online and it led to the website skiptracers dot com! I can't wait to retain our attorney so I can stop these people from calling all the time.