Trustee going after my engagement ring AND tax return - UGH

[DivorceRuinedMe]

So I had my 341 today and while no creditors showed up, it was still a messy meeting.

The trustee grilled me about my engagement ring - wants me to get it appraised and NOT from a pawn shop. I was instructed by my attorney not to wear it to the meeting and she asked me why I didn't have it on. I don't always wear it to work b/c I work withwelfare recipients that often have criminal backgrounds and I feel like it puts me at risk to wear a ring to work like that. She asked me to tell her about it and I froze and said it was a round stone and not oval like it really is. I also said it was 1 carat and while it is 1 carat, there are some side stones too that I didn't mention - not b/c I was trying to hide anything, I was just on the spot and didn't know what to say. I was just absolutely frozen when she was asking me about it. She asked how much I paid for it and I honestly couldn't remember b/c my husband did all the negotiating and paying for it. Plus, we traded in another ring to bring the cost of it down so I don't remember the final figures. I am so worried now that it's going to come in worth more than what I told her we paid for it. When I took it to a pawn shop they said they'd give me $200 for it but I know my husband paid more than that for it.

At this point, I seriously want to mail her the ring and just be done with it - it's not worth this stress.

She was stone cold and NOT in a good mood. She never smiled once and she was just so negative to everyone. My attorney's office made a mistake on my assets too and this pissed her off as well. She was like - amend it immediately.

She also said she wants to see my tax return (which is going to be negative this year due to my husband cashing out his 401K in order for us to buy our house). I told her that there wouldn't be a refund but apparently she didn't believe me. I'm also worried now b/c even though my husband cashed out the 401K outside the 6 month look back period, I don't think I listed it as income for him in 2007. Ugh - one more thing to worry about. I'm going to talk to my atty about that when she gets back from vacation after Xmas.

My husband (who didn't file with me) thinks I'm being melodramatic saying that I'm stressed out about this. He always minimizes all my stress and makes me feel worse for feeling stressed.

Sigh......

I guess I'm glad that part is over with but now I'm fretting about the ring and the tax return issue.

Will this ever end?

[ohwell]

Oh my, I am so sorry she grilled you!

Did you list your ring specifically? Why in the world did she zone in on that asset? I am so sorry!!

We just put a general figure down for jewelry, we had a wildcard exemption however so we were way covered anyways since we didn't have any homestead exemption and no other assets to keep.

So you have to get it appraised? You didn't wear it right? Do you have another ring that can pose as your engagement ring that you can have appraised that is of lesser value?

Diamonds depreciate so much, I can't believe the trustee even went there - how totally heartless..

[DivorceRuinedMe]

I did list it specifically - it was listed as "engagement ring" with a value of $200 which is what the pawn shop said it's worth. I live in Florida though - land of only 1K personal property exemption and I'm already at that with my house full of furniture and other random belongings. I have nothing of any real value - it's just all the little stuff like general house stuff eats up 1k pretty fast.

I honestly don't even care about losing it anymore - I just want this nightmare over with. I want to be done with the stress and worrying and I want my life back. I really don't care what I have to give up at this point to get that. It's that bad!

[ohwell]

Its just stuff, I had to have mine cut off due to my hand swelling at the end of my pregnancy (I had complications/emergency Csection), I was so worried about my finger I didn't care about the ring at the time I remember saying "Screw it! they are going to take it anyways, its just stuff!! GET IT OFF!!" As my finger was turning dark pink almost purple(I was so scared)... makes you put things in perspective!

I totally understand. I can't wear mine because of it being cut off my finger, don't know when we will be able to afford to fix it. After losing our home and both our new cars, its one of the few things I have. Learning to let go is something I have for sure learned, if it makes our new start come faster.

[DivorceRuinedMe]

Its just stuff, I had to have mine cut off due to my hand swelling at the end of my pregnancy (I had complications/emergency Csection), I was so worried about my finger I didn't care about the ring at the time I remember saying "Screw it! they are going to take it anyways, its just stuff!! GET IT OFF!!" As my finger was turning dark pink almost purple(I was so scared)... makes you put things in perspective!

I totally understand. I can't wear mine because of it being cut off my finger, don't know when we will be able to afford to fix it. After losing our home and both our new cars, its one of the few things I have. Learning to let go is something I have for sure learned, if it makes our new start come faster.

I know - you are 100% right. I agree totally. I just want it done with. I almost said to the trustee - you want the ring - you can have it - just tell me where to mail it. LOL.

[danaf]

How strange she would zone in on an engagement ring! Too bad you don't have some other ring of lessor value that almost looks like an engagement ring you could substitute it for. Too late though because this woman made you describe it.

well, hang in there.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Keep in mind that while she may herself want you to get it appraised, the law says "replacement value", which is not the same as retail. I really think your attorney could (and should!) go to bat for you on this one. If you could replace it at a pawn shop for $200, that is replacement value. God knows I did not list retail for any of my belongings, and no one I have heard of does, not even for high-dollar items. Try a jeweler that does consignment sales (try older, locally owned establishments that have some older looking pieces in the window along with new items) for an informal appraisal that doesn't cost you much. If the trustee demands more, your attorney really needs to step in and earn his/her fee: the law specifically says replacement value, not retail.

Me, I could not afford the cash upfront to pay for an appraisal, so I'd have already thrown it at the trustee. I'm glad you didn't, though.

[BKcrazy]

My attorney asked me to get some jewelry appraised after I filed, just in case, as he doesn't want any surprises. He told me to contact the company that the court uses when they are called in for appraisals. I spoke to the guy, and emailed him about the pieces. He estimated value at about $330. But he wanted $150 for the appraisal (completely ridiculous!). No thanks. Some of my family deals in jewelry, my attorney said it was ok for my cousin to do the same appraisal. And he came up with the same amount. And obviously it's a lot less then what it was retail. My attorney even asked, how much would you get for those pieces at a pawn shop?

Sounds like you have a bitter trustee. I agree with Fresh, your attorney should be questioning the trustee.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

BKcrazy, I couldn't remember how much the appraisal fees were (it's been quite some time since I had anything worth appraising!) but I knew they were not cheap. $150 to appease a trustee's curiosity is insane. If I had that kind of cash to spend on a whim at the end of the day, I wouldn't be in bk court. A professional estimate should be fine, like the one you got from your cousin, and if the trustee wants more she can at least request it in writing. DRM's already getting audited; what more do they want? Sheesh.

[$$only4ever]

Sorry, Div that the trustee put you through the paces. It seems like filers either get a fair trustee or an evil one. Just luck of the draw, I guess.

My attorney advised me to list the ring but not wear it to the 341 meeting, which I did. I just subsituted it with a zircona cubic ring for the meeting. Nothing was ever said.

I know this is upsetting. Try to stay as calm as you can. It might be nothing more than the trustee flexing her muscle. Unfortunately, some are on a ego trip. Good luck!

[MomIcantFindmy]

I am sorry this happened to you. I agree with 4ever, I think the trustee may have been flexing muscle to see if anything else was going to come out. Hence the audit. I would not worry too much about it and you are right to call your attorney after the holidays.

At least the hard part (341) is over. Take a deep breath and try to relax. We all are with you.

[keepmine]

I've hesitated aboout posting to this thread. I think I've been pretty consistent about encouraging people to be upfront and honest in their filings but, I just draw the line with something personal like engagement rings and family heirlooms. Creditors and trustees have no business taking those.
Me, that ring would have been "lost" long ago.

[chpxiii]

I've hesitated aboout posting to this thread. I think I've been pretty consistent about encouraging people to be upfront and honest in their filings but, I just draw the line with something personal like engagement rings and family heirlooms. Creditors and trustees have no business taking those.
Me, that ring would have been "lost" long ago.

Yes. For anyone who is considering filing, things like engagement ring, wedding bands, stuff like this... they are easily "lost."

[DivorceRuinedMe]

I hear you on the "losing" thing but I was so scared to do that. I didn't want to jeopardize my whole bankruptcy for a lousy ring. It's just not worth the stress to me. Plus, I have the ring insured so I knew there'd be a paper trail.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

I hear you on the "losing" thing but I was so scared to do that. I didn't want to jeopardize my whole bankruptcy for a lousy ring. It's just not worth the stress to me. Plus, I have the ring insured so I knew there'd be a paper trail.

You know, if you have the ring insured, the insurance declaration page should be enough for the trustee (unless you insured it for a great deal more than its replacement value). This may save you the cost of an appraisal.