Can I file? Will they take my savings? help

[Notsure]

I've always paid my credit cards off every month (those of which didn't have zero percent promos). My score last time I checked was 800+. I have roughly $10k in savings (which took years to save) and thats it. No retirement. Last yr I moved away from my parents home (had to because it wasn't working out) and into a trailer (value $3k). I've had the same job for the past 3 yrs. It's only on-call work so the hrs vary. When I moved I had enough income for the bills but that quickly changed. The hrs have slowed way down and many weeks go by with zero hrs worked now. I've been pulling money from my savings to pay the bills. Something I never planned on doing and want to stop. See its all I have in my name and I really don't want to deplete that.

I've started to pay the bills using the credit cards. For the first time in many years I have not paid off my cards in full. I'm still making at least the min payment amount and will continue to do so. I applied and have been approved for food assistance. Haven't tried any other services because they look to see if you have a checking/savings which I do. I'm not ready for bankruptcy right now but possibly within a yr or so I will be considering it for a total loss. Hopefully something changes before that (job wise) but I doubt it. This is the worst state to live in if you need a job. So heres my questions:

When filing for bankruptcy, would they take the money thats in savings? It's not tied to any cc bank, its at emigrantdirect.com. I'm thinking of just making small withdraws until its depleted. You know, just in case. However I would like to know if I could leave it in there safely? If I still decide to take it out, what lumps of sums would be safe to take out without sending a red flag when/if it comes time to file for bankruptcy? I've already transferred a few thousand out the other day to help with my brothers business in hopes it takes off. What about money I get back after doing taxes? Should I change it so that they start taking less out so the tax refund can't be pulled as part of the bankruptcy. Btw, last yr I think I got back around $500 or so.

I'm 30yrs old. Live in michigan. Car is paid off and is only worth maybe $1k at best. Home value $3k. It's insured for $10k but thats just to make sure I have a home in case anything bad happens. I'm single with no kids. I live by myself. Nothing I own is worth any large amount of money. No loans, just credit cards. Never made any cash advances nor ever filed bankruptcy. Last months income was under $300 (which covers lot rent for the trailer with a few bucks to spare) but has been slowly going down. Job income so far this yr is roughly $6k (most of which was acquired in the beginning of the yr), last yr it was roughly $4~$5k more. I was on unemployment this yr but thats run dry as well. Would I even qualify for a total loss bankruptcy when/if it comes time to file?

[HHM]

First question...how much debt do you have?

[woeisme]

What are you asking? If you should run up your credit cards in the next year or two while shifting your savings to cash in your mattress, use what income you do have to only make minimum payments on the credit cards, then file a Ch 7? You could certainly do that, but I can't imagine anyone on here advising you to take that course of action.

If you really think a BK is in your future, then look into the exemptions as to how much Michigan allows for cash on hand, and don't have more than that in your savings account when you file. But I don't see how a BK is going to help you except in the short run. If you can't pay your bills with virtually no debt now, how are yuo going to be able to pay your bills a year from now after you've filed the CH 7? You'll be in the exact same boat then that you are now, and won't be able to file again for 10 years, plus you've ruined your credit in the meantime. You have to start looking for a job that pays more than $300 a month. I know you said Michigan is bad to find a job in, but even a minimum wage job would pay more than double what you are making now.

You actually sound like you are in a pretty good position now in a lot of ways. You have no debt other than the bills you put on the credit cards last month. You have some savings for an emergency. You own your trailer and car, and only have to pay for the lot rent. What you need is a job, any job, even two part-time jobs if you can't find a full-time position, so that you bring in enough to cover your very small amount of monthly bills. A bankruptcy really sucks, and with almost no debt at the moment, isn't something that you should be thinking about because once it's done, you are right back where you are right now, no debt but low income.

If you can't find a job, would you ever think about a roommate who could pay rent and help that way?

[Notsure]

I have more debt than what I put on last month. I've had balances on my cards but they've been with zero percent interest. Amounts without that were paid off. However, I paid them off using the savings. I used $4k out of savings this year already, on top of the $6k that I made AND the small amount that unemployment gave me. I haven't sat down to figure out exactly whats owed but I think its getting close to $5k now. 75% of which was on zero percent which has now ended. Plus I had to pay for another 6 months of car insur and 1yr home insur. That was put on the cards because I didn't have the money. It was different living at home, less expenses. Now its a whole new ball game.

I work 2 jobs, none of which give me any good or guaranteed money but they have patience with me. Like this week for instance, so far I've done zero work. I've put many apps in BUT it makes it hard when theres lot of others your competing against and don't have any experiance. I barely passed high school. No good in math (well I know my pluses!), and am a slow learner. I easily get confused and stressed out. I have a terrible memory for someone my age and that alone causes many problems in the work field. I'm a follower and can only do stuff if its explained one-step at a time, when I complete one task then and only then give me the directions for the next task. You can't always have someone holding your hand. Which is why I fail at many jobs. I don't just talk, I TRY the job FIRST before saying I can't do it. I can get lost a few miles away from where I live. Thats why I invested in a gps. Dealing with the public is very hard which is why working retail never worked out. I'm a keep to myself type of person and not any good with conversation. Many jobs I find change slightly on a daily basis which causes problems for me. Some people don't like doing the same task over and over but for me I find that easier. I've tried many jobs and basically it came down to the easy jobs like janitorial, and possibly general labor being the only ones that I can understand and comprehend how to do. I had a very rough childhood which may or may not have led to some of these problems. You can imagine what kind of life I live. I hate every minute of it. Sometimes its like "whats the point".

Now I don't want to hear "quit making excuses", or expect anyone to feel sorry for me. It gets old really fast. Anyways, I'm losing track here. So let me answer some more questions. Roommate, won't ever happen. No way would I trust anyone. I value my stuff (what little that I have) a lot and don't know anyone that I would trust with my keys everyday. I wouldn't want them bringing people here, and so on. I don't even allow kids in the house (nor do I like em). I've got 1 friend but he's an older gentleman so of course he has his own place and is married. No g/f nor do I really put any effort into looking for one. I like being by myself. I don't drink, smoke, party, etc. Just leave me alone and I'll leave you alone type of guy. Ok..ok.. I'm getting off base again.

Your right on another thing, yes bk is alright for the short term but if the income doesn't change then whats the point. So what, I got a few years living scotfree but what about the years after that. Yup I know all that and honestly I'm just in a confused state. I've always had more income than I had expenses. Honestly, if I knew my job was going to go downhill like this then I would have saved my money on things I bought. I have every intention of paying IF I could just get some good income rolling in. I've always worked and bought with my own money everything that I needed in life. I didn't expect people to bend over backwards for me, if I needed something then I got it myself or paid someone to help. Living at home has been the only thing that I relied on someone for. Of course I did my share there and held a job during most of that time.

[kl030505]

Have you applied for disability assistance? I think it's entirely possible you have an undiagnosed impairment that would probably qualify you for Social Security. Get yourself to your local social services department.

$5K in debt is not enough to be worth declaring bk.

Best wishes for you.

If you can't find the social services office, go to your doctor and ask him or her to help you find it. If you don't have insurance or a doctor, go to any hospital in your area and at the admissions desk ask to speak to a social worker. Explain you need social services, but you are very confused and don't know how to go about it. If you go during regular business hours, there will be a social worker on staff somewhere in the hospital who can get you started. Please do not be offended. If you need more concrete information for where you need to go, tell me your state and I'll find you #s and addresses.

[HHM]

If you have only $5k in debt, own most everything outright and have $10K in savings, there is absolutely no way you should even be considering filing BK.

[AboutToBK13]

I have to agree with the previous posters, if understand correctly only have about $5K in debt and more than $6K in savings. BK does not make much sense from my perspective with the savings that you have vs. the debt that you have. Remember once you play the BK card, it is several years before you can BK again. You may want to hold that card for when you have no ... I mean no options. For example you owe Bank of America $75K and they are filing a law suit. Not that I would know about that mind you.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

If you have only $5k in debt, own most everything outright and have $10K in savings, there is absolutely no way you should even be considering filing BK.

I have to agree. I don't understand how you can possibly contemplate bankruptcy until you've exhausted all your resources.

I understand you not wanting to deplete your savings, as you said, but you're not going to be able to avoid it: unless it's retirement, it will all go to creditors in bankruptcy anyway. I agree with the previous poster who said your best bet was to find another job, even if only part-time, to keep it together until better opportunities come along for you.

I honestly don't think that bankruptcy is your answer. It sounds like you thought it might protect your assets, but it's not meant to, and even if that used to be the case the laws have tightened considerably. Also, consider that random audits are an integral part of the new bankruptcy laws: if you file, and you are one of the lucky people chosen for audit, there's no way you would be able to hide that chunk of change, or your other assets like the equity in your home.

I'm sorry, I don't want to be preachy, but you still have savings to rely on and a place to live and options to consider (like moving to an area with better or more jobs in your field). Many don't. Like you I had a nice chunk of savings, but a long stint of unemployment and disability changed all that. Bankruptcy was literally my very last option. All of my other assets, though carefully hoarded and used sparingly, are long since exhausted. This is why I am eligible for bankruptcy, esp for a Chapter 7.

I just don't see bankruptcy working for you the way you'd like. Sorry, but that's my honest opinion.

[woeisme]

Sorry I didn't understand the situation about your credit card debt. But as was said here, you won't be able to protect all your savings and maybe not even all your home equity in a Ch 7, and without $100 a month in disposable income, a CH 13 is out of the question.

I thought that was a very good idea the one poster had about trying to get SSI. I have a sister-in-law who is on SSI because of mental disability. She's smart, very well-read, and could probably work in my opinion, but she can't keep a job for any length of time because she has anger management and depression issues, so couldn't work retail or anything around the public either. It took quite some time for her to get SSI, I think close to 5 years, but she gets about $700 a month plus another $120 in food stamps and Medicaid, so is able to get by. The other plus with this is that it makes you judgement proof, so you would never need to file a bankruptcy because they can't take your SSI check no matter how much you owe someone. Maybe they could still take the trailer, I don't know, but you'd have more income than you do now. You're still going to need to do something about the savings account though, I think you'd have to spend it down to some level like $1000 or something around there before you could start getting SSI. Maybe you could put it into an IRA or some other type of retirement fund that they couldn't touch?

[Notsure]

I'm pulling it all out of the savings. Some of which I already drew out earlier to help my brother with his business in hopes it takes off. This way I could work for him. However since he just started, thats going to take a while. I also plan on lowering how much they take out for taxes at work.

Anyways, I appreciate all the info so far. No as mentioned i never had any intention to file with only $5k in debt. Thats just stupid. What I meant to say (which I already said) is that if things don't change in the coming up years then I might have to. I wanted to plan for that. Taking $10k (I don't have this much now) out of the bank at the very last minute would send up a flag. So in the next year I'm going to make small withdraws. This money will be then put in a safe. The money has been my savings, I don't have a 401k (had one a few years back but exhausted that when I lost one of my jobs). If I require a replacement vehicle (another beater because its cheap) then what would I do if I didn't have this money? Something like that is what this money is for, not to pay off a credit card. Emergency cash plain and simple (some of which was given to me when I was young). Not spending money. When I buy something, I don't say to myself oh look I got $10k which will cover that. I have trained myself to think this money doesn't exist. Pretty much a retirement savings without the retirement account so if an emergency comes up then the money can be used without penalty. Filing bk is not considered an emergency that would make me spend all this. What happens after bk, I would need some money to get back on my feet. Thats kind of hard to do if I have nothing. My checking account is different, whats in there is what I use to pay bills and such and whats in there determines what cool things I can buy for myself. If theres enough in there for them to take then so be it I guess. All of what I make goes in that, nothing gets added to savings anymore. If I have to keep the savings at home to keep other peoples hands off then I will. I'm someone who isn't to fond of banks and this is why. When its in my possession then I know its safe and no one knows I have it but me.

When I was an early teen I was taken away from my parents and placed into a foster home (went into a special home before I was placed into a foster home). I'm guessing from 12~18 yrs old I was living with someone else. When this happened, they placed a hold on my mothers accounts and a lein on her home. Not sure why, perhaps they wanted to make sure she couldn't take her money out and not pay for my care. Honestly I don't know why. I was removed because of issues with my dad abusing me when I was young. He commited suicide when I was removed in fear of going to prison for what kind of abuse he was doing, which he would have. So again, having money in the bank just opens the doors for the gov to get there hands on it should anything happen.

I wasn't lying when I described how I am. It's just gotten worser over the years. It's like my memory is at full capacity (if that makes sense) and can't learn anything else. I can pickup and understand simple stuff but forget about mid-long term memory. Last night and all of today I have felt like I'm drunk (no I don't drink). Head is spinning and I'm having trouble focusing and concentrating. Having an attack I guess. People ask me something and I'm dumb founded. This is why I have a terrible time in the work place. I refuse to run machinery because I WILL screw it up. Never on intention but rather on losing track of what I was doing. Makes it scary at times. The boss can't give me anything that requires me to use common sense to do. I've only had 2 really understanding bosses in my life who took the time to assist me. One lost his job (hope it wasn't because of me) and the other is my current boss at the place I work on-call.

I have been in 2 (yes 2) car accidents when I was young. Perhaps I got some kind of brain damage that was never found. Who knows. One I was really young and lying in the back of my dads datsun. A drunk came flying over the hill and rammed the back of the car. You can just guess what happened to me. Another situation was that I was in the front seat of my moms dad's nova and for some reason my grandmother slammed on the brakes (think thats what happened) and I went flying into the windshield, cracking that and the dash. Didn't think that was possible to do but it happened and I remember it, same as the first accident. Even with my memory issues, I still remember that. These all took place when I was really young and there probably is no records of that anymore but did happen.

I would have tried to apply for other programs but its hard without someones assistance in helping me do that. I get the feeling that I'll walk into one of these places and they would be like naw this kid is making this up. Go get a job. I worry to much about what others think. I haven't had insur for probably 4 yrs so I haven't seen any doctors since then. So instead I just been struggling on my own. Bouncing between jobs and such. More than likely anyone else in my situation would have already been setup with the state helping them. I don't know how to do that. Even filing out paperwork on my own is hard.

I live in michigan btw. Roughly an hr south of jackson.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

I would have tried to apply for other programs but its hard without someones assistance in helping me do that. ...More than likely anyone else in my situation would have already been setup with the state helping them. I don't know how to do that. Even filing out paperwork on my own is hard.

Notsure, there are state programs for people with disabilities called Vocational Rehab (in Florida it's through the state Department of Education) where, once you get in, they pay for *everything* that is needed to get you back into the workforce. Not rent or food -- you'd get that through other programs if necessary -- but things like prescriptions, medical services, mental/physical/vocational evaluations and diagnosis, help with finding a job, applying for a job, discovering what your specific disability is and finding ways to accomodate it and jobs that would be a good fit for you, etc. They can even help you apply for other benefits you might be eligible for, like SSI.

You don't have to be good at filling out paperwork or anything; you call them up, they set up an appointment, and you go in. They fill it out with you, right there. Once you do that, if they think you may qualify, they send you out for testing and evaluation (at their expense) and it goes from there.

No, I don't think you're lying when you say how it is for you trying to do paperwork and interact with people looking for a job. There are all kinds of disabilities that cannot be seen from the exterior, but when you look normal people assume you ARE normal, and then get all weird when you really can't function as they think you should. I have to be honest and tell you that if it weren't for VocRehab, I would not be around to write this to you now. In the waiting room, I've seen all sorts of people: people in wheelchairs, people on crutches, people with problems from birth like cerebral palsy and Down's Syndrome, and people who look absolutely normal. My point is that VocRehab helps ALL these people get back into the workforce. I bet they could help you too.

With no income right now and what sounds like a verifiable disability, plus your desire to work and make money if you could, it sounds like they could help you and that you would qualify. It takes a few months to get in (at least here that is the case) but once you're in things start rolling. If you are just sitting around waiting for the money to run out, you have **nothing** to lose by finding out about Vocational Rehabilitation in your area. The post about SSI was very good as well. You have absolutely nothing to lose, and everything to gain, so give it a shot. Good luck to you!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Okay, here's the link to VocRehab in Michigan (except there it's called "Michigan Rehabilitation Services" or MRS). The first thing you see on their page is this statement: "The mission of Michigan Rehabilitation Services is to assist individuals with disabilities into employment and self-sufficiency." Sounds like a perfect fit for you!

Click on the following link and there are links to info on who qualifies, how to apply, etc. While you can get the form online, you actually fill it out at an orientation. You get the place and time for that by calling. Also, you do not already have to be employed, nor do you have to be receiving other benefits like SSI or unemployment. You can go just as you are, today.

Good luck!

http://www.michigan.gov/mdcd/0,1607,7-122-25392---,00.html

[Notsure]

Jobs around here are a joke to begin with. It's not just my "issues" thats the problem. I don't know about other states but around here the pay is really going downhill. I've found a few jobs that I could probably do BUT then I see the pay, I'm like whats up with that?!? Factory work at like $7.15/hr or $7.25/hr. Who are they trying to kid?!? Thats minimum wage! Manufacturing/Industrial work should be a little better than that. Working min wage isn't going to pay the bills. I don't expect a $12/hr job but even with my issues, I kinda of expect a little better than that.

Although I live in a trailer, the bills really add up.

Heres a rough breakdown.

Home bills:
Lot rent- $275
Electric- $75
Gas- $75
Phone- $50
Cable tv/internet- $40
Insur- $25

TOTAL/Month- $540

Auto related:
Gas- $100
Insur- $35

TOTAL/Month- $135

Personal:
Food- $150


Thats not counting vehicle maintenance, hygiene products, spending money, and so on. The food amount is questionable because depending how much I make at the job I find, I could possibly loose this leading to another bill added to the list. Plus after all this, having money to pay off credit cards. So even if I can somehow manage to find a job that gives me $200/week (after taxes) which would cause me to loose the food stamps btw, it still is not enough to make ends meet. Now hopefully you can get a better idea why I even considered bk in the first place. No its not something that will happen right away but possibly in the near future. After that then I'll have no choice but to move back with my parents. I wanted to be independent and get on my own but it appears thats impossible to do around here.

If I had a good job lined up somewhere then yes I would possibly think of moving (remember that emergency money? Something like this is what I would use some of it for). Jobs are getting hard to find around here. Sure theres always mc-donalds, or walmart. However those are places I know wouldn't work for me. I've always worked at factories because thats where the money is. Janitorial, and even assembly I found that I can do. Running presses, machinery, and the such, NO.

Thanks for the info, I'll look into them. Working doesn't bother me. I'm not a lazy couch potato who just wants to sit around and milk the system.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Notsure, VocRehab also does what is called "job carving": they work with local employers to make room for people who can contribute, but not easily fit into the general structures. In other words, jobs are created specifically for those people. Your options are probably not as limited as you think; you've just met a lot of resistance and come to that conclusion because it's what you found on your own. But Voc Rehab can pull all kinds of rabbits out of hats: I was amazed, and I think you would be too.

From the way you write, I almost think you assume that if you go down there it will just be another situation where you get shoved into something else that just isn't right for you, but I assure you that's not the case. It's not about changing *you*, but finding out what is really going to work for you and supporting you to succeed in that long-term. You can say NO at anytime to something that is suggested. No one forces you into anything. But they will definitely challenge your current mindset about what you can and cannot do! That's why they sink all that money into getting your disabilities evaluated and identified, and your skills too.

Besides, after all this time and the life you've lived, wouldn't it be nice to know exactly what your problems are, whether they have a name, whether there are any realistic things that can be done to make your life easier?

As for "milking the state", yes there are people who latch onto the public tit and hang on for dear life. But VocRehab is not about that: it is a great benefit to the community to have as many people employed, self-sufficient, and on the tax rolls as possible. You would be helping your community to take part in this, as well as helping yourself. You paid taxes all the time that you were working, this rightfully belongs to you! It's there for people just like you, who can work and want to work but for one reason or another just need a little help. It's not forever, either: the program lasts 90 days into whatever job you find, so that both they and you are certain it's a good match. They don't want you working just to make them happy; they want you self-sufficient on a long-term basis. Isn't that what you want too?

Do what you like, but if these people can get you the services and assistance you need -- the exact sort of help you referred to in an earlier post -- and you miss out on it because of some misplaced sense of being a public burden, well, that's on you. I'd hate to see you miss out on it.

[rrockinggramma]

Are you close to Hillsdale? I live in Jackson. MRS has an office in Hillsdale. You might want to check out FIA also for food assistance and cash assistance. And Michigan Works might be able to help you find a position. That is in Hillsdale also. Take advantage of the help that is out there for you. Michigan economy is depressed right now but there is help out there.