if you are on state assistance and file bk

[ameliabedilia]

I agree that he was not being judgemental and I would hate to see a big fight break out.
I do however think there are situations where making more money does not benefit financially. My husband is a basketball coach and his team folded while I was 6 months pregnant- Our insurance was with my husband's job as mine did not offer any. I made a little too much to qualify for any kind of help, so we ended up charging over $10000 for a crappy short term health insurance plan and l & d costs that only covered half of the costs to have a baby.
When my husband lost his job a second time, we lived in an expensive area and qualified for medicaid- he is now working so we won't have it anymore, but it certainly has been wonderful help to us.
Until this country decides to fix the outrageous problems with healthcare and childcare, medicaid and public assistance will continue to often be better for people financially than working more hours, more jobs.

[stopthebleeding]

At least you'll continue to qualify so it is not a wash you can do it every 7 years and that way they won't be broke and have bills they can't pay. You all need to be nice . My mom is on SS for mental illness and needs a bankruptcy for her sucide medical bills if you talk down on her I would be so mad. So all circustances are differnt so be careful with the judgements. for people who are also in the same boat bankrupt that is harsh stuff you have to say.

[JollyGG]

Keepmine is rarely judgmental but is usually the first to push people to earn more money and improve their situation.

In many cases we became bankrupt by not living within our means. Well there comes a point where expenses cannot realistically be lowered any more and in order to live within our means we need to increase our income.

I belive Keepmine just wants everyone to make the most of their fresh start and that includes doing things like insuring your family has health care coverage and enough money to support their family size.

No one here feels that anyone who responded is a looser, or not doing the best they can. We just want to see everyone doing amazing after bankruptcy not just making it. Plus, I know personally I just can't image supporting a family of four, five, and more as many people do on the small salaries many here have to deal with. I have a family of four and make two to three times (as a family) what some of the lowest income members here make and it is a struggle. I am still trying to do as everyone encourages on this board and stop living paycheck to paycheck.

Congratulations to everyone who makes do with what they have. You are doing an amazing job. I would just like to see you not have to work so hard, or at the very least get more from your hard work.

You amaze me.

[$$only4ever]

I really did not take KeepMine's comments as being judgemental. Look, we are all members of this forum. Why? Because.....we have all been in a tough financial situation. I don't know about anyone else, but I am determined not to ever be in this position again. So, I read everyone's responses and go from there. Alot of great advice is given on this forum, but it may not be the best advice for everyone. If it is not the best advice for you, that's okay. We are all different and all have different situations.

Lately, it seems like alot of bickering and unfortunately name calling is going on. Remember, yes, this is a forum for support, but sometimes you may hear something that you don't agree with. I have and I just get it go. That is their opinion, it is a free country.

Everyone just needs to keep an open mind and not take everything so personally. It is a support forum.

[tay666]

My 2 cents.
I can understand people being defensive.
I understand all too well, since we are on foodstamps and have the medical card for our children at this time also.
That is what happens when a series of events over the past 2-3 years drops your income from $45,000 a year to less than $20,000.

But i can see what keepmine is saying.
Why waste your BK if things aren't going to improve soon?
Yeah, sure, it's nice to get out from under those bills hanging over your head, But what happens when the next emergency crops up?
It's one of the reasons we are still waiting to file.
We could file now, no problem. But why should we?
We don't make enough to have to worry about any judgements or garnishments.
A BK isn't going to free up any money, as we aren't paying any of those bills now anyway. All we are paying is the utilities and the mortguage (which is a lot cheaper than rent around here)
Hopefully in 6 months my wife will finish school and be able to get a decent paying job with her in her new field.
When that time comes then we can file (after graduation, but before employment)
That way, any new medical bills (especially the co-pays) can be included, as well as anything else that may crop up between now and then.

In other words, if the creditors can't touch you.
Why go through the hastle of a BK until you are close to seeing the light at the end of the tunnel anyway.
BK is a magic bullet. But you only get one shot with it, then it is gone for the next 7 years.
Timing can be everything.

[Minnymouth]

Nice discussion Folks, both sides of the coins...............

There's nothing wrong is needing public assistance..... many could use it and DON'T.... they struggle along..... Those that do use it - IT'S A GOD SEND relief for them......

Without it many would just not make it EVER...... many would die from lack of medical care that CAN BE REFUSED..... I would hate to think a "child" died because they couldn't get medical care because of something as foolish as "lack of money"......

If a person can get off assistance after coming out of bankruptcy, that is terrific..... if not...... so be it, it is still needed till they can...

The FOOLISH PERSON is the person who files bankruptcy (whether on assistance or not) THEN turns around and creates the same problem AGAIN...... (and some do, especially with credit cards).

We here on this forum do not mean to sound judgemental, many of us are just stating facts. During bankruptcy nerves are frayed, and we carry our feelings on our sleeves (it's like everybody wants a bite of your A***).

So don't be so sensitive, if you can. Look at both sides of the coin, and if you don't agree with the advice - that's okay!!!

But we all mean well, and hope to help offer suggestions that will help YOU in your situation.

Those of you who have NEVER needed assistance, do not know what the future holds in store for you!!!! Everyone needs help sometime in their lives....... lets hope its there for US if we are in need also.....

My thoughts......

[Run]

I have one point to make that I must make and that is that money does not buy success or happiness. Making it, being successful etc... can be done without income.

Up here in AK, many people live in the bush with their only income from trapping and/or prospecting. Many live a subsistence lifestyle and really do gather the vast majority of their food and supplies from the wild. It really does not have to cost a lot of money and life is not about money nor is success or happiness.

If life was about that I wouldn't waste my time. But it's not, it's about human relationships, personal growth (spiritual, physical, emotional, mental, intellectual etc...).

Bankruptcy and income are neutral in that except wherein they facilitate the freedom or peace of mind to accomplish it. But they are not pre-requisites.

If we really need money to give Caesar we can go fish and come up with the money (and we are proof of that!!!)

Unfortunately government and corporations have a monopoly on the resources with which to get a leg up financially. Though subsistence is legal, if we sold one blueberry, we would be in violation of the law. If we use public assistance to supplement what we would have been able to do for ourselves (if the means of production hadn't been usurped from the people), then that is the price society has dictated and we must operate within the constraints of law.

Those constraints allow for public assistance, and for bankruptcy. That bankruptcy is PROTECTION afforded under law against more than just financial judgments. We filed to gain the protection from future law changes that may change things. You know debtors prisons have had a place in this world quite frequently. I'm not saying that that is going to happen or is even likely, but we are seeking the full protection that the law affords from the recourses of debt collection.

Will we still be poor? Yes. We have no desire to be otherwise. (we would live remote and self sufficient regardless). Will we just incur more debt and do it all over again? No way!!! So what have we gained? After all we were very "judgment proof" to begin with. Protection, legal protection. And that was worth spending the little resources we had to achieve.

To us it was a get out of jail free card, not an ace in the hole. Not everything is about money. Not necessarily even bankruptcy.

[6ftladycop]

You know I agree with you. Until someone has an autistic child, another with disabilities and another with some other problem, they will post and post here until kindom comes, but they will never understand. My advice is to talk and respond only to those who understands your plight. If you continue to go back and fourth with another person here who is negative to your special situation, you will be posting forever. I,m sure the person is not trying to be hurtful, but it hurts non the less to continue to read and post to and from a person who has not walked in your shoes. Until they do, they will never understand.

[6ftladycop]

keepmine says "Nothing in my post is judgmental."

Can you really make these types of comments without walking in the persons shoes? Lets be honest here. There is no time limit on when a person may or maynot be able to take care of themselves. Yes, money avaliable to a person who files bk will prevent the problem from happening again, but keep in mind that it may be easy to say "get some more money" but that may not be easy to do.

[Run]

That and the fact that the rich and famous are notorious for bankruptcy. Obviously then quantity of money is not a valid consideration. Living within your means (whatever they may be) is.

[keepmine]

I really hope you guys are m,aking some plans post bk to get off public assistance. A bk is just wasted if you can't improve your standard of living.

This is my first post in this thread that apparently ruffled some feathers.
I don't see anything judgmental in a 2 sentence post that suggested that since you're free from creditors, it's time to improve ones lot in life.
As others have stated, a bk is pretty much a one shot deal now and, it is wasted if you can't, don't or, won't take some steps to support yourself. I mean really, if you struggle to breakeven post bk with just normal household bills-how long before disaster strikes? You can't stay lucky forever.
How easy it is to improve your income is up to you.
Me, I was looking for a better job before I filed and I snagged one a week or so after my discharge. A few months after discharge, I took on a pt job working overnight on weekends for a major retailer {2 nights a week}. I know there are a lot of retail jobs available on a pt basis this time of year.
Somehow, someway, you just have to try.

[Elle615]

Nothing in my post is judgmental. It's just the plain unvarnished truth. If you file bk and are still on public assistance, you've accomplished nothing. The fresh start is meaningless.
If you're barely breaking even post bk, you better start making some strides to improve your situation or, you'll be right back behind the 8 ball in no time.
I'm speaking from experience. I'm a bk filer too. I just refuse to accept the status quo post bk. You just have to raise your income . Money makes a lot of problems go away.
I had an old football coach who used to say, "we're gonna do what we gotta do to get what we want to get".
Somehow, someway, you just have to do it or, you really have wasted a bk.

You try raising 5 kids 2 with disabilities on 15,000 per yr.

There's your problem right there. You really think you and your family have any future on $15K/year?
I'll just say again, somehow, someway you need to be able to raise your income or you're right back in the same boat before you filed.

These are the posts that caught my attention. Especially the latter.

Finding a way to be self sufficient is key.

I don't see how I'd be wasting a bk. We wound up with medical debt because my husband broke his foot. Now with garnishment, even with the better hours at work, we're getting less pay. We need help. This is a way to help. Then more schooling, and a better job. Meanwhile, providing a safe and comfortable home.

You said people in a spot like mine would have wasted a bk. Is that truly what you meant?

Wasting it would be filing, then as soon as I can, taking out loans and credits cards beyond our means to pay.

[keepmine]

You said people in a spot like mine would have wasted a bk. Is that truly what you meant?

If you can't support yourself post bk, it is wasted. I don't see how I can make it any plainer. File but then, you have to get better jobs.
You can waste a bk with just settling for the status quo. If you keep living paycheck to paycheck, inflation alone will do you in. You won't have to wait for the inevitable emergency.

[CindyLou]

I am 36 years old work full time and I am the sole suporter in our household due to my husbands disability.. We have no children because we just can't seem to get ahead and get into a position where we feel we should. We are currently trying to get out of our small apartment and into a house so that we can try and plan a family. Even though I have a good income, if I don't work I don't have health insurance and I have never felt right to take the chance to get pregnant and not be able to work. I would love to have 5 children but have never felt I could financially so I never have. It is a choice I have made. I envy those who do have children and seem carefree about their choice to take assistance. This is not judgemental,. just another "side of the coin"

[rilbrianne]

Let me tell you something, if you feel you need to judge, be my guest. You want to hear my story?

My husband and I have been married 5 1/2 years and have 2 little girls (4 and 10 months) We recently lived in Florida and had 2 new vehicles, $1000/mo rent (which was unGodly but normal there), and were expecting to increase our daycare to 2 children at Christmas time. I was a felony secretary at the State Attorney's office and my husband was a heavy construction mechanic. We made more than we ever could here in Michigan.
We gave all of that up, gave up our vehicles, our dream jobs and everything to be able to take care of our children. We had no other option. We couldn't afford daycare for 2. So I am a stay at home mom now and my husband works in a machine shop. We have an old 1985 pick up so I'm stuck at home all the time. A friend gives my daughter a ride to preschool. We live with my father and get food stamps and medicaid because around here, you can't find a job like the ones we had - not that we aren't willing but if you are complaining about us being on assistance, we would have to have those kinds jobs again. I am happy to be back here where my family is anyway.

So if you want to judge me, go ahead. But don't act like your above anyone else here because our situation hasn't "improved" after our bills are gone. How many people are giving up their homes and vehicles? Do you call that a better situation? Believe me, when I can afford another car and daycare for 2, I'll be out looking for one. Until then, lay off because you don't know the half of it.