Reg: New BK Law

[mesa777]

I hope that with the HORRIBLE real estate market that we could go back to the old bankruptcy law... This new law is a JOKE and only benefits rich companies and banks. Thanks to George W. Bush for giving the banks what they wanted.

I think that this was a set up from the begining as alot of people were given WAY TOO much credit by the banks and when you now go to file bankruptcy you get to file a Chapter 13 and repay these companies for 5 years!! This is a joke and the banks should be held partially responsible for the large credit lines, etc., given to people knowning that once the real estate market got worse that people would take cash advances from their credit cards to pay for their homes until they finally lost them back to the banks.

Great country we live in here!!

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

One Lawyers Experience

Eligibility to Get Out of Debt is Easier!

(Link to copied content added by moderator - http://robertweed.com/ )

The new bankruptcy law that took effect October 2005 was supposed to force people out of Chapter 7 get-out-of-debt bankruptcy and into Chapter 13 debt consolidation plans.

It didn't. That's what I've seen in Northern Virginia; and the national statistics that back me up. That's what all of us were talking about at our last national convention.

Eligibility to file Chapter 7 and get rid of your debts is calculated in a whole new way under the new law--but when you do the calculations, eligibility is easier!

Big Problems with the New Law.

Does that mean the new law didn't do anything? No, it did quite a lot--nearly all of it bad.

First, the paperwork is a lot harder for everybody. Under the old law there was a presumption--a legal assumption--that you were eligible to file a Chapter 7 get-out-of-debt bankruptcy. Now you have to prove it.

Second, there are new rinky-dink requirements--hoops you have to jump through: taking two classes on the internet, saving your pay stubs for months, showing the court your social security card, tax forms and bank statements. These are designed to trip you up--to get you tossed out of the bankruptcy court so the creditors can keep hounding you.

Third, the enforcement attitude is very different. Investigators from the government can now check behind you, trying to catch you in a mistake.

[325Falcon]

You dont like the country? LEAVE!

[Bandit]

I hope that with the HORRIBLE real estate market that we could go back to the old bankruptcy law... This new law is a JOKE and only benefits rich companies and banks. Thanks to George W. Bush for giving the banks what they wanted.

Pretty much. I do feel it was another attempt to squeeze out the middle class & small business man, ma & pop type stores to give big corporate a final stronghold on everything. I do not recall ever seeing so many small companies go out of business so fast as in the last two years.

I don't see where most people could have forseen the real estate crash maybe too many people are too busy playing video games & chatting about video games on cell phones. Internet was a nice distraction to it. Maybe some of the filthy rich & politicians in business, like Bush. When he says the 'American People', that means the Bush Family..

I think that this was a set up from the begining as alot of people were given WAY TOO much credit by the banks and when you now go to file bankruptcy you get to file a Chapter 13 and repay these companies for 5 years!! This is a joke and the banks should be held partially responsible for the large credit lines, etc., given to people knowning that once the real estate market got worse that people would take cash advances from their credit cards to pay for their homes until they finally lost them back to the banks.

I do find it kind of odd that the housing crash came after the new bk laws. Honestly, the new laws did not change that much and most people still benefit in a Ch 13. In another way you are right because people are being forced into rental properties where rent itself is more than a mortgage now. Funny how all that kind of happened over night.
Did the big money see who would be forced into BK with the new laws? Sure they did. Does Uncle Sam force people into BK? Yes he does. IN another strange way BK law seems to be a nice way to keep his thumb on people to keep them from advancing too soon. JMHO

My one aunt did a cash advance to her mortgage & is paying 0% interest on her home loan for life. She has done very well using the unsecured credit & paying off the house, well, most of the house. Unforunately not very many got ahead doing this.

Great country we live in here!!

It still is but maybe not forever. We could be somewhere that they take your property & business just for the hell of it and that does seem to be where the USA is headed. Castro is a good example of that. Or be put into prison waiting an execution because we cannot pay.
I could go on & on about this stuff, but I don't see where it is going to change as I see a leveling out of global power and the kings of the earth. They all hate each other for greed yet keep sleeping with each and are pretty paranoid themselves.

[Boscoe]

I think these cc companies thought they'd be getting this huge windfall from this law change. Truth is that the majority of people who file, and certainly the majority of those who use this forum, are no asset bk cases, meaning that they have no non-exempt assets left after applying their exemptions. Further, I would also say that the majority of those on this forum are below the median income so they can and usually do file chapter 7's.

The last poster was right. Another example of the middle class getting squeezed. The rich are not affected; the poor and lower middle class get 7's. Just about everyone else gets bk jail for 5 years.

[Bandit]

You dont like the country? LEAVE!

It is not that so much as in phyiscally leaving but if someone wants to have a business & is born in the USA, they would most likely do better in a place like Costa Rica. Unless you are a foreginer moving to the USA to start business you don't get much of a chance to succeed while the foreigners come & get all the breaks. They will get 8 years of tax free money as their brother & family works for them, then the brother will start his own business & get 8 more years of tax free money. IMO, This is in part from a break down of family values in the USA where families used to stick together in business. Big corporation promises & technology has made it very appealing to the youngsters to push pencils (yet find those promises to not be true after a few years) & government has made it very hard for middle class family business to push rocks if you are born a citizen.
Concerning business it is pretty clear that big money is leaving as it can manufacture for much less in another country. Make it cheap elsewhere, sell it high back to the American people.
Our toll ways & bridges are leaving, being left for other countires to make the profit. Small household repair service has left as it was forced out of business due to one year warranty on crap plastic products. Funny how 'parts' to repair a 'good product' all of the sudden to not exist.
Throw it away & buy a new one. Textile industry has left, well, they just gave that away- & the Hotel industry hit rock bottom this year.
Leaving the American people for a very bumpy road.
Global economic power is shifting.
Will it recover? I do not know. Maybe the worlds Kings in power have their own agendas & don't want it to recover.

[JasonK94Z]

Not scared of the new law here. We are over the median income, but still pass the means test to file a Ch7. Also get to keep the house and vehicle. The new law isn't really that bad.

[HHM]

If you really look at the new vs. old law, not much has changed. Granted, there are a small percentage of people who probably could have filed 7 under the old law are now forced into a 13, but I think even the credit card companies are surprised by how small of a percentage.

As for the housing crisis, I don't think the new BK laws really caused that to happen, the writting was on the wall as far back as 2003-2004 with questionable lending practices, speculative buying, and wages not keeping up with housing inflation.

As for doing business, trust me, the US is still by far one of the best, and easiest places to make money. (and for those that remember, I have been around the world). Keep in mind, 88% of business in the US are classified as "small".

[mesa777]

This new law was only created to PROTECT the companies and not the poor people like us.. Its amazing that when a rich and famous person files for bankruptcy that they get new cars and houses the same day... Look at when a business files for bankruptcy the get to break all of their union contracts, cut everyones wages and still be able to give the CEO a huge bonus at the end! WHAT A JOKE!

Hopefully when Bush leaves office the democrats who take over office can scrap this nonsense bankruptcy law and help out the "common" people of this country, many whom are living paycheck to paycheck and many of them, like myself, are one paycheck away from living out on the streets.. its really a sad situation..

Then you got the housing problem.. the major banks in this county knew that this was going to happen from the get go... so now when our houses get forclosed on the banks and all the money will purchase them and they will again make more money once the market goes up... I really feel that the banking system in this country is corrupt and major investigations over this matter need to be conducted.

[Boscoe]

So, Mesa, with all due respect, how would you propose we change the bk law after Bush leaves in 09?

The only major change that I would make is to allow bk judges to change the terms of mtg loans that debtors cannot pay as is.....

I'm interested to hear what other changes would be proposed.

[keepmine]

Hopefully when Bush leaves office the democrats who take over office can scrap this nonsense bankruptcy law and help out the "common" people of this country, many whom are living paycheck to paycheck and many of them, like myself, are one paycheck away from living out on the streets.. its really a sad situation..


The democrats voted overwhelmingly for the legislation.

[B12]

Great country we live in here!![/QUOTE] by Mesa


Mesa, finally you said something with which I can agree!

You really need to take responsibility for you own financial failure and stop blaming the country, banks, credit card companies, the real estate market, the Republicans and Bush.

[B12]

[QUOTE=Bandit;114596]Pretty much. I do feel it was another attempt to squeeze out the middle class & small business man, ma & pop type stores to give big corporate a final stronghold on everything. I do not recall ever seeing so many small companies go out of business so fast as in the last two years.


The failure rate of the brick and mortar small business has remained the same. Many reasons contribute to these failures but the main reasons are lack of capital and poor, poor planning, not corporate squeezes.

Our nation's economy still depends on the small business. Small businesses are the building blocks of our economy and are our country's largest employer.

[Bandit]

The failure rate of the brick and mortar small business has remained the same. Many reasons contribute to these failures but the main reasons are lack of capital and poor, poor planning, not corporate squeezes.

Our nation's economy still depends on the small business. Small businesses are the building blocks of our economy and are our country's largest employer.

Kindest Regards, B12

It's changing. they do not need as many small businesses like they used to. I can speak for the service, parts & repair buisiness. I watched 17 out of 19 stores in this area go under in the last two years due to corporate cutting the strings. It is the same around the country. These stores were here for a very long time, owned & operated by middle class people. They do not need the (as many) small ma & pop stores today. They do not care if you have to drive 150 miles to get something serviced. It easier & cheaper to send out a new unit.

The only thing they are concerned with is the one year warranty & even that is becoming more difficult to make claims as they can pretty much depend on a lot of people throwing it out & buying a new one.
I can list 50 different big corporations that we deal with and it is changing. Electronics, toys, appliances, gas & electric tools, grooming.... this has all started changing in the last three years.

Pizza Hut & Mc Donalds will remain on the block, but the little pizza store will go out of business 3 times in 5 years because they cannot compete. Some areas of business it has not changed is the high scale dining rooms, family garages & small family owned grocery stores who specialize in ethnic food where you can cater to a certain client. You could franchise a couple of 7-11 stores but try to get your own little market going. OK, just pray Meijers or Costco does not move in on the same block.
What happened to all the little neighborhood hardware stores in the last decade that I used to visit? Home Depot, Menards, Lowes....that is where we go now. The middle class cannot buy the bulk the way the Giants do & this applies to shipping costs as well concerning the trendy small business online.

Do you think Menards wants to lose 3 million dollars a year to each of the little hardware stores in town? Now do that across the country.
While small business may be the building blocks, corporate politics will make sure they stay small & crushed, if not small in size then small in numbers. They have the means through litigation alone to put them out of business & there are about 30,000 small guys who go through this every year. I Hope they have good attorneys when it starts. The big boys have the resources to stomp out the small guys without much of a fight.

[Bandit]

As for the housing crisis, I don't think the new BK laws really caused that to happen, the writting was on the wall as far back as 2003-2004 with questionable lending practices, speculative buying, and wages not keeping up with housing inflation. ".

Agreed. The BK law had nothing to do with the housing crash. I still find it odd that it was put in place when it was, considering so many other things.

As for doing business, trust me, the US is still by far one of the best, and easiest places to make money. (and for those that remember, I have been around the world). Keep in mind, 88% of business in the US are classified as "small".

It is still the best & easiest. Too bad more small people can't manufacture but that went out the window with Little House on the Prairie. Stay in the states & make it in China & Mexico. I was watching how bad the pollution is in China from factories not being regulated the way it is here. The water especially. The economy might be better but they will all be dead if they don't clean it up.
While the USA can be at the top for competition it also has the biggest national debt. Is that a good thing or bad thing? Unemployment & inflation is low but that does not mean we have the best growing economy. It is all relevant. I can see where China once had rice fields they now have much of our factories & the pollution to go with it.
What do you think?

But then what do I know- I got straight D's in college Economics ...but I tried. I just had a very boring cut & dry, lecturing Professor who did not like being asked questions.