Need help in regards to MAJOR GAMBLING DEBT!!

[dscurlock]

I doubt Internet Poker rooms are all fair games. Their playing/downloaded software to your PCs are not entirely without tricks, cheats, and their hidden cameras (i.e., IP spying, bets spying, activity spying, etc.) which are all easily programmed by net-bots, spyware, and crawlers, etc. into your PC nowadays. Losses on Internet gambling sites are more heavy than physical room because just one instant mouse click, you can so easily ... bet your life assests away.... while sitting in poker rooms your hearts pounding, your sweating heavy breath, chip stacks... is another entirely control/playing factor in real life..

I almost got into that one time, i downloaded the free software, and it says play free until you load your account with $$$ - everytime i played the free part of it, I won, I bet if i was really playing for $$, then I would have not won anything...

I do not think these types of sites are allowed in the U.S.
so somebody is living very well off of this guy and many
others that gamble online...

[B12]

Honestly, dscurlock, it is not for you to see or judge.

[treehugger1]

Then there is the other side of the coin. Folks who gamble a great deal and gamble a lot (hours per week) at casinos, may only lose 5 - 15 cents on the dollar. But the catch is that they eventually hit a large $5k to $20K slot, etc. When this happens, all "feels" well. As a result, even when they have lost a great deal of money there is that mental history of the big wins. Eventually, you cannot beat the casinos, but the false sense of the occaional big hit keeps large money gamblers coming back to the machines, etc.

I'll admit that i have some personal experience here, but never once used borrowed money to gamble with. I would occasionally use rent, insurance, utility money to gamble with. I simply didn't make payments on usecured debts. Regardless, the gambling part is the same addiction. The only thing that has kept me out of chapter 13 is that I won several $K between 9 and 12 months ago. I don't frequent the casino any longer.

I have a new obssesive/compulsive behavior. I'm now convinced that i can just keep not paying my creditors and see how long it takes for them to get judgments and wage garnishments. I realize that this too is a game, not so different than gambling. The good thing is that I no longer gamble at casinos and appear to have taken up gambling against creditors and CA's. LOL.

One reason I didn't file last January is because I had some very large winnings and paid several $K in federal and state taxes. My attorney at the time stated that if I couldn't offset these winnings with losses, the trustee would have a hard time not considering the winnings in the six-month average income. On the flip-side, if I had lost several $K and increased my unsecured debt doing so, I could have argued "I had reasonable expectation of winning large sums (backed up by W2G's showing large winnings as a history.)" This entire messy business stopped me from gambling further, and allowed me to take the past 9 months and see what other options I had besides BK 13. The option I chose was to stop paying unsecured creditors and seeing if I could get them to work out payment plans. This is a new type of gambling to me (same compulsive/obssesive behavior) except now I "make" a bit of money every month based on debt I can't/won't pay.

I would speak to a competent attorney with regards to how long you actually need to wait to file after incurring large gambling debt. Six months of paying back a bit seems reasonable, but it may not be required. A good attorney who knows how gambling is treated in your district can offer you advice. If you can't find another safer addiction to offset your gambling, then you defintiely need to speak with others and seek advice from GA, a therapist, etc. Best to you and please keep us informed. Sharing information is powerful!

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Catchmeifyoucan here ...

I continued to pay the creditors, even at the minimum. I'm sure it must of helped by the time I filed. I only started getting behind AFTER I filed, obviously declaring BK. I was working two full time jobs at the time I filed so that there alone put in Ch13, even though the lawyer suggested I quit one job I could file for Ch7 and be done with, however, being a gambler myself, I knew the risk of getting objections by the creditors (since most of my debt was incurred through gambling). I'm only a slot player, I never got into the on line scheme of things, I don't think I was even tempted.

Knowing that in APRIL 2006 I had blown away $10,000 off of one credit card I had just received in the month of MARCH 2006. I was really scared for sure I would have to pay THAT back. So I told the lawyer, I don't want to risk an objection, lets just go for a 13 for now. Well make a long story short, at my 341 meeting how I got into debt was never an issue, the Trustee was more interested in how much disposable income I could pay back! When my lawyer proposed $250 the Trustee wanted $800! We went before the BK Judge and he never mentioned the gambling either, he gave me a choice, quit one job and convert to Ch7 and owe nothing or expect to pay $800 for the next 5 years! Well, you do the math!


I quit one of my jobs.


If I were you, I would just keep paying on that credit card(s), even if its the bare minimum, until you can file, at least it proves you are trying your best to pay something better than nothing back! It's up to the creditors to prove Fraud.

Best of Luck Catchmeifyoucan

[WantToBeDebtFre]

I think that online gambling is illegal in the U.S. since 2006. There's something about the banks will not accept transactions from these sites. Am I wrong?

[dscurlock]

Honestly, dscurlock, it is not for you to see or judge.

I was not judging anyone, we all have problems.

[dscurlock]

Then there is the other side of the coin. Folks who gamble a great deal and gamble a lot (hours per week) at casinos, may only lose 5 - 15 cents on the dollar. But the catch is that they eventually hit a large $5k to $20K slot, etc. When this happens, all "feels" well. As a result, even when they have lost a great deal of money there is that mental history of the big wins. Eventually, you cannot beat the casinos, but the false sense of the occaional big hit keeps large money gamblers coming back to the machines, etc.

I'll admit that i have some personal experience here, but never once used borrowed money to gamble with. I would occasionally use rent, insurance, utility money to gamble with. I simply didn't make payments on usecured debts. Regardless, the gambling part is the same addiction. The only thing that has kept me out of chapter 13 is that I won several $K between 9 and 12 months ago. I don't frequent the casino any longer.

I have a new obssesive/compulsive behavior. I'm now convinced that i can just keep not paying my creditors and see how long it takes for them to get judgments and wage garnishments. I realize that this too is a game, not so different than gambling. The good thing is that I no longer gamble at casinos and appear to have taken up gambling against creditors and CA's. LOL.

One reason I didn't file last January is because I had some very large winnings and paid several $K in federal and state taxes. My attorney at the time stated that if I couldn't offset these winnings with losses, the trustee would have a hard time not considering the winnings in the six-month average income. On the flip-side, if I had lost several $K and increased my unsecured debt doing so, I could have argued "I had reasonable expectation of winning large sums (backed up by W2G's showing large winnings as a history.)" This entire messy business stopped me from gambling further, and allowed me to take the past 9 months and see what other options I had besides BK 13. The option I chose was to stop paying unsecured creditors and seeing if I could get them to work out payment plans. This is a new type of gambling to me (same compulsive/obssesive behavior) except now I "make" a bit of money every month based on debt I can't/won't pay.

I would speak to a competent attorney with regards to how long you actually need to wait to file after incurring large gambling debt. Six months of paying back a bit seems reasonable, but it may not be required. A good attorney who knows how gambling is treated in your district can offer you advice. If you can't find another safer addiction to offset your gambling, then you defintiely need to speak with others and seek advice from GA, a therapist, etc. Best to you and please keep us informed. Sharing information is powerful!

I think they look back six months on income, do not know about winnings, but if its the same, wait six months for your winnings to fall off the radar, then try again...ive worked in the last six months, made some decent money, but I am not working now, so it would be foolish for us to file right now as they would consider my last 6 months income, but we will file before my wife gets her raise and a fairly decent bonus...

[Lindsay]

I think that online gambling is illegal in the U.S. since 2006. There's something about the banks will not accept transactions from these sites. Am I wrong?

I think it is. I don't play in online casinos, but I do enjoy betting on the big horseracing days like the Kentucky Derby. I used to have this great account with an offshore company where I could place quarter minimum bets on races. It was really cheap entertainment on rainy days. One day after not betting for a couple months, I tried to log in and I guess it was no longer allowed to have this type of account if you are a US resident. Now I have to go to the OTB if I want to bet and thats a pain because its loaded with shady looking characters! So I just sat out the last big races and enjoyed them on television without wagering.

On some of the big online gambling boards like The Prescription, people were losing tons of money through a company called Neteller who handled money transfers to gambling sites. I guess they were shut down and alot of US residents who had money coming to them lost their transfers. I'm not sure if this was ever resolved.

I think there are alot of people with gambling problems now. Everyone in my family loves to gamble. They put huge Indian casinos in our area and they are always filled. We live in an area which has one of the lowest average incomes (I think around $22,000) in the country. I don't think it is unusual at all for people to be bankrupt due to gambling problems. I'm sure the trustees have seen this alot.

With online gambling, wouldn't there be a record of money lost so the trustee wouldn't assume that you just hid the money? I know when I used to play the horses online, I could log in and print records of every wager I placed.

[jp2861]

Catchmeifyoucan here ...

If I were you, I would just keep paying on that credit card(s), even if its the bare minimum, until you can file, at least it proves you are trying your best to pay something better than nothing back! It's up to the creditors to prove Fraud.

Best of Luck Catchmeifyoucan

I'm confused. If someone can continue to make the minimum payments on their credit cards, why are they filing? I've seen this comment made a few times and it always puzzles me. Or, I guess my question should be how are they being approved for BK? Maybe I'm missing something when I read posts like this. I just don't understand how a BK is approved if the person has income for their expenses and can still make the minimum payments. Wouldn't that be fraud?

[HeatherB]

I'm confused. If someone can continue to make the minimum payments on their credit cards, why are they filing? I've seen this comment made a few times and it always puzzles me. Or, I guess my question should be how are they being approved for BK? Maybe I'm missing something when I read posts like this. I just don't understand how a BK is approved if the person has income for their expenses and can still make the minimum payments. Wouldn't that be fraud?

I don't know, but depending on the amount of credit debt the person has, making only minimum payments would take several, several, and lots of years to pay off. (and by the time it's paid, probably triple or more than the original balance)

[B12]

Heather is right. Also, if you read some threads here, most of us have been making the minimum payments by robbing Peter to pay Paul.

We take out cash advances, do balance transfers, liquidate the equity in our homes, in our insurance policies, in our savings and retirement accounts. We do not just decide to go BK in one day. For most of us, it was a long process of struggling to do the right thing and BK is the last resort..... when all our money and assets are gone. The madness has to stop somewhere.

It's called BK.

The only fraud I see is upon ourselves taking so long to come to the conclusion that we must file.

I APPLAUD everyone here who takes the steps and courage to file, clean up their credit and live a better lifestyle.

It sure beats sitting around doing nothing and feeling sorry for yourself.

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Winnings

I think they look back six months on income, do not know about winnings, but if its the same, wait six months for your winnings to fall off the radar, then try again...ive worked in the last six months, made some decent money, but I am not working now, so it would be foolish for us to file right now as they would consider my last 6 months income, but we will file before my wife gets her raise and a fairly decent bonus...

They look six months back, but your winnings will show up when you present your tax forms.

I'm confused. If someone can continue to make the minimum payments on their credit cards, why are they filing?

Because it's a never ending cycle. Really just drawing circles as the finance rate just eats most of your payments up! With Bk13 you only look at up to 5 years paying your debt off depending on your plan rather than 30-40 years depending on your debt! For example, if you owe $20,000 on credit cards at 19.5%, $332 per month pays them off in 20 years. Your total payback is $79,680.


It sure beats sitting around doing nothing and feeling sorry for yourself.

I hear that !

We take out cash advances, do balance transfers, liquidate the equity in our homes, in our insurance policies, in our savings and retirement accounts. We do not just decide to go BK in one day. For most of us, it was a long process of struggling to do the right thing and BK is the last resort..... when all our money and assets are gone. The madness has to stop somewhere.

[B12]

Well spoken Catchme. Thank you for taking the time.

[emaretta]

I think that online gambling is illegal in the U.S. since 2006. There's something about the banks will not accept transactions from these sites. Am I wrong?

It's just like any other law...there are always loop holes and while some of the smaller sites went out of business there are a TON of sites still running, being transmitted through the internet to millions of american's computers. I don't know the details, but perhaps they can't be based in the US, but they can still operate over the internet in the US. I loathe online gambling owners; how could you sleep at night knowing you're contributing to the destruction of so many lives? It's a free country, but addiction does not allow free will. It's no worse than a drug dealer constantly trying to entice you although you've expressed you want to stop; those owners are spineless.


Take heart mesa777, it is the addiction, not you. This does not make you a bad person in anyway.
You are now doing the best thing you can do for yourself and I wish you the best of luck.

[JollyGG]

Wow Catchme. You've highlighted some of the best advice about bankruptcy in one great post.

Any chance we can copy Catchme's post into it's own thread as well. I know we normally don't like to do duplicate postings but I think his post is worth seeing twice.