Getting rid of cash...

[leftyf]

Sounds like I can hold on to my cash if I'm filing a 13...does this mean I can sneak in a vacation with some of this cash? My wife is demanding a vacation and I keep telling her I'm not sure if we're allowed. We haven't actually filed anything yet, but one attorney we met with told us not to take a vacation and to spend all of our money soon on household stuff. The other one said just hold onto the money, which my wife interpreted as meaning we can spend our money on anything we want, which might be true. I've asked a similar question before, but I can't find my old post? Any thoughts? IMHO, I think the attorney who said to just hold on to the cash knew what he was talking about more than the other attorney, but I'm not sure. Just want to make sure we don't take a vacation and then have to postpone our bankruptcy longer or get accused of fraud.
Thanks,
Lefty

[lrprn]

Just want to make sure we don't take a vacation and then have to postpone our bankruptcy longer or get accused of fraud.

Picture this.... You are sitting in front of your trustee during your 341 meeting and the trustee says "I see you spent a fair amount of cash recently. What did you spend it on?"

Would you rather answer, "We spent it on life necessities like food, clothing, medical/dental checkups, and car/house repairs and here are all the receipts" or "We spent it on an unnecessary vacation and here are all the receipts"? Nuf' said.

This is a great opportunity for the two of you to start moving towards living within your means. That means no big vacations for awhile. Not forever, just for now. It's the first of many changes that all of us have to make to the way we used to live so that we don't end up swirling down the financial drain again in the near future.

[leftyf]

I agree with you...on the other hand, it's been 4 years since we had a vacation and looks like it will be at least another 5 before we can take another one. Opportunity only knocks every once in awhile...
I would rather not have to tell the trustee I took a vacation, but besides my embarassment and the moral dilemmas around this, can I actually be denied my 13 because of it? Am I doing anything wrong under the "letter of the law?" Obviously, I'm not following the spirit of it. fyi, planning to do vacation for 6 on about $2K...big for me, but I'm not sure if this qualifies as big vacation. It's all relative, I guess.
Thanks for the input.

Leftyf

[Lindsay]

What about a compromise with your wife and take a road trip instead? I love those! You can find a nice area within a couple hundred miles of your home and vacation there. Maybe even rent a cabin, go fishing, relax. Or a low cost motel if your wife hates to rough it. Those are my favorite types of vacations (well, mostly because I hate to fly), but they can be really fun. Especially if they involve a trip to the horse racing track!

We haven't taken a vacation in 7 years (not even a road trip ) because we've been so broke from making the minimum payments on our credit cards all this time. My husband isn't very ambitious (LOL, to say the least) and makes only $12,000 a year with no benefits so I have to scramble on eBay to sell enough to pick up the slack, which of course still leaves us in the hole each month. I'm so anxious to get out of this vicious cycle and when its all done and over with, one of the first things I'd love to do is save for a vacation. I always wanted to take my three kids to Disney, but now they're just about grown up! My youngest is 14 and my oldest is 20. It would be great to actually do something fun with money instead of putting it all on credit card balances and never making any progress.

If I were you, I'd probably either take a very modest and short vacation and use the rest for expenses, stock up on groceries, get the utilities and car insurance paid a little ahead. The vacation will be over quick and then you'll be nervous about having to tell the trustee. I think it would be better to postpone it a little bit.

That's kind of a neat dillemma you have. I wish I had a bunch of cash to spend; we don't even have enough money to pay for a lawyer yet so I'm thinking that we won't be able to even file until October or November.

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Is the Cash in an account, or is the Cash in a shoe box? If it is in a shoe box, than why the rush to blow it. If in an account and of course traceable, hmmm.

Catchmeifyoucan

[leftyf]

It's fully traceable in my credit union bank account...doesn't mean I can't slowly get it out, does it? I could switch some of it to the "shoebox."

[Bandit]

Picture this.... You are sitting in front of your trustee during your 341 meeting and the trustee says "I see you spent a fair amount of cash recently. What did you spend it on?"

Would you rather answer, "We spent it on life necessities like food, clothing, medical/dental checkups, and car/house repairs and here are all the receipts" or "We spent it on an unnecessary vacation and here are all the receipts"? Nuf' said.

I spent 2K on a new lawnmower because the old one died. Would that be a good one?
I could use a new mower around here.

[Bandit]

I agree with you...on the other hand, it's been 4 years since we had a vacation and looks like it will be at least another 5 before we can take another one. Opportunity only knocks every once in awhile...
I would rather not have to tell the trustee I took a vacation, but besides my embarassment and the moral dilemmas around this, can I actually be denied my 13 because of it? Am I doing anything wrong under the "letter of the law?" Obviously, I'm not following the spirit of it. fyi, planning to do vacation for 6 on about $2K...big for me, but I'm not sure if this qualifies as big vacation. It's all relative, I guess.
Thanks for the input.

Leftyf

That is a long time to never be able to go somewhere. I feel bad for you both that you have not been able to take a vacation. I am lucky if I get to go somewhere for a few days each year. Nothing big like Paris or anything, just travel to another state and visit a few tourist traps and maybe a hotel. I will be lucky this year if I can spend 8 bucks and go visit the local zoo.

What exactly is a Trustee? Is that the same as the lawyer who files for you?

I dont have any experience with this but it might be better to wait for the vacation just to be on the safe side or maybe go out of town for a couple of weekends instead of a whole week or two. I don't know the answer. I do know that people do need to get away sometimes or they start feeling down.

On the other hand if you really need to get rid of cash you can get rid of some of it by giving it to me.

[SinkingFast]

What exactly is a Trustee? Is that the same as the lawyer who files for you?

The Trustee most often referred to here is the Panel or Standing Trustee.

That's the person, representing the US Trustee's Office in the Local Court.

Many Trustees are practicing BK attny's themselves. But Trustees can be just about any type of professional. You can read more about the Trustee's program here:

http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/ust_org/about_ustp.htm

[Bandit]

The Trustee most often referred to here is the Panel or Standing Trustee.

That's the person, representing the US Trustee's Office in the Local Court.

Many Trustees are practicing BK attny's themselves. But Trustees can be just about any type of professional. You can read more about the Trustee's program here:

http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/ust_org/about_ustp.htm

Ok. This is the guy who works for the government in a BK. He handles the property with legal obligation for the best interest of the party filing.

It is kind of like they have turned the word 'trust' into a noun, for example they handle the trust that you give to them for your case or belongings.

Is that what he does? & how would you know for sure he is on your side? (or are there rules that he has to go by)...
I mean, how do you know for sure you can trust the guy?
Does everyone who gets a BK also get appointed a trustee?

Web definitions for trustee

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:trustee&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

I have a lot of questions that lead to more questions, so no one feel like you have to explain, though I do appreciate it.

I also do not mean to derail the original topic.

[lrprn]

Is that what he does? & how would you know for sure he is on your side? (or are there rules that he has to go by)...
I mean, how do you know for sure you can trust the guy?
Does everyone who gets a BK also get appointed a trustee?

IEveryone that files bankruptcy of any kind gets a trustee assigned to their case. All trustees definitely have rules they have to go by, but they are also allowed to have local interpretations of the law which can lead to the law being implemented in different ways between different trustees.

In bankruptcy, your trustee is NOT "on your side". The trustee represents your CREDITORS' interests. It's the trustee's job to make sure your creditors get as much as they legally can after you file.

[SinkingFast]

Ok. This is the guy who works for the government in a BK. He handles the property with legal obligation for the best interest of the party filing.

The Trustee does not work on behalf of the Debtor/Filer. The Standing or Panel Trustee represents the US BK Court on the Local level.

When you file BK, you establish a BK Estate. The Trustee administers the BK Estate.

If you have any assets, liquid or otherwise, the Trustee will seize and disburse funds on behalf of your Creditors. The Trustee in turn, gets a portion of all assets seized or Ch 13 Plan Payments made.

So, NO, the Trustee does not look out for the welfare of the Debtor/Filer.

[Bandit]

lrprn, SinkingFast,

Thank you for that. So he is more like the district attorney (say in a different legal case) and he cannot be trusted. LOL

I was looking at the different definitions along with the trustee for bankruptcy and I could tell something about that just did not seem right & that is why I wondered about him being on or not being on your side and the word trustee just did not jive with it's definition of what trust really means.

That clears things up.

[NotFun]

In order for retirement funds to be protected, the monies have to be invested into an ERISA qualified plan.

Generally speaking, Retirement IRA's are not ERISA qualified. So many Retirement IRA's are not exempt from the reaches of the BK Trustee.

It then falls to State Exemptions whether or not funds in a Retirement IRA are Exempt.

Depending on the State a filer lives in will determine if Retirement IRA funds are protected or not.

http://www.offshorepress.com/lawsuits/ap9410.htm

I have a question about this, what about if I have an investment account for my daughter, and my younger brother?

Is that fair game for them to take?

If so I need to cash them in and hold on to that cash.

[JRScott]

I spent 2K on a new lawnmower because the old one died. Would that be a good one?
I could use a new mower around here.

I bought a new push mower after filing , I had to have one the old one fell apart