I will not be paying some of the cc mins this month *GULP!*

[twuoo]

Well, thus far, I have never missed a payment. Though I was late once last year. My credit rating is around 685 now. I have finally decided to not pay some of the mins, especially on the cards I haven't touched for a month or two.

One card closed out my acct in October because I wouldn't update/verify my information with them. I still faithfully paid them even after they raised my interest rate from 1.99% to 20%. No more!

It feels really odd to be "planning." But my cash flow is being whittled down to nothing because of the cc mins. I know I've paid them enough interest now since I've been bleeding to them for over a year.

Time to start to take back some control. By next month or so, I'll not be able to make any cc payments.

Until then, I'm just waiting around for the day until I can official file.

Hope I'm doing the right thing.....

Thanks for listening to me vent.

[DeadManCrawling]

We are RIGHT THERE with you. Never missed a payment, but had a few late ones.

A strange mixture of fear and relief came over us last month as we added up all the bills, and realized that our "minumim payments" accounted for 4k per month of our income.

The 2-3 late payments we had caused every credit card we have to jump from an average of 7% interest to over 30%-every single of of the damn things. Of course, what that really did was throw us over the edge of something we had been flirting with for a very long time, unknowingly.

I suppose we might actually want to thank the CC companies. If they hadn't cranked the interest rate, we might have been unwitting lambs to the slaughter for the rest of our lives.

Still, it DOES feel mighty strange.

On a note of interest and humor:

We stopped paying a few weeks ago. One of our largest creditors is Chase.

We have received a couple calls which we didn't answer, but so far no nasty letters, not even late notices.

Today I open the mailbox and find this beautiful envelope. It looks like a greeting card your aunt or mother might send for your birthday (maybe even witha crisp one dollar bill inside).

I open it up, wondering who the heck we know in Maryland or wherever it came from.

It actually IS a card-just like the kind you see at Hallmark stores.

But this one says, in beautiful flowing script, with a photo of the rising sun in the background:

"In the unpredictable world, you never know when change might spring upon you unexpectedly.

We want you to know that we are here for you, no matter what.

If your finances have taken an unexpected turn, we can help.

Give us a call today and receive up to $150,000, no questions asked, to take care of any high interest loans or obligations using our special home equity program for our best customers.

Remember, we're here for you, and just one call away.

Signed,

Chase Manhattan Bank


(snort, hoot, hoot)

-DMC

[reallynervous]

I remember how scary it felt when we stopped making payments. I was so afraid of what might happen. Other than getting a ton of phone calls daily (which we didn't answer), it hasn't been too bad. It is SO quiet now that we have informed them about the BK filing. Sunday our phone didn't ring once all day. It was amazing.

Hang in there and keep coming here for support. There are so many great
people willing to share their experiences and offer support. Imagine how lonely people felt before forums like this were available (as well as how uninformed they were).

Take care and believe in yourself and your knowledge that this is the best choice for you!
reallynervous

[SinkingFast]

Just a word of caution about paying some and not others,........

After you've missed several payments, CC's will start pulling your Credit Reports. They're gonna look to see if you're paying other Creditors. If so, who and how much.

If you play favorites by paying some and not others, you could be headed down the road to an Objection(s) from the "cheated" Creditor(s).

So you wanna be mindful of that as well.

[Liaah]

Welcome to the club!

We quit paying ours in April and have since seen an attorney, which we have yet to hire but probably will, and he told us to stop ALL payments to CC's immediatley. At first it felt kind of strange, but it didn't take me long to get over it The calls are pretty steady and some of the payments are only 1 month late, but I have turned our ringer off so I don't even hear them.

It has been said before on here that it is good to stop the CC payments so you can get a real feel for what it will be like to live a cash only existence.


Goodluck on your debt free future!

[twuoo]

Just a word of caution about paying some and not others,........

After you've missed several payments, CC's will start pulling your Credit Reports. They're gonna look to see if you're paying other Creditors. If so, who and how much.

If you play favorites by paying some and not others, you could be headed down the road to an Objection(s) from the "cheated" Creditor(s).

So you wanna be mindful of that as well.

I wanted to pay some of the cc, especially the ones that were recently used. I guess to me, it seems more like fraud if I make the charge and then don't even attempt to pay a min for the next month?

What's your take on this?

Thanks!

[SinkingFast]

It could be considered fraud. People generally know they are in trouble some time before they actually sit down and crunch the numbers.

But it really falls to intent at the moment of the charges. When you made the charges were you even considering BK at the time? Even if the answer is Yes, it's gonna be tough for a Creditor to prove.

And the Creditor is also gonna look at what you bought. If it's daily living necessities, that's one thing. If you took a trip to Vegas or bought some luxury item, that would be a whole different ballgame.

[twuoo]

Hmmm..the only questionable charge is shingles for a roof (less than $1500) and I had to pay an attorney (less than $600), not bk related.

I'm hoping these won't raise any red flags.

[DeadManCrawling]

You NEED a good roof. You NEED an attorney. Okay, no offense to you pro se filers, who will chime in that you don't HAVE to have an attorney. That is true, but I couldn't do it on my own. Not that I am dumb, but I am terribly unorganized.


No court will look at your roof repair with an evil eye.

We will be buying a new air conditioner for the house (about 6k). The old one is beyond repair and it's already into the low 90's here.

I am sure you have nothing to worry about on these purchases.

However, if you charged the shingles and attorney to a CC, then file within a couple months, the court could make you pay those anyway, and not allow the bk to discharge them.

Ask the attorney, they will know better how it works in your district.

[SinkingFast]

Those aren't what I think would be considered frivolous expenses. If those occurred within the 90 day period, you may be required to repay the Creditors. Those particular, isolated, charges may not be discharged.

Just something to be aware of that can happen.

[wrinkleigh]

It was strange for me the first month I stopped paying our cc payments too. But it was also very liberating when I actually HAD money to buy gas, groceries, toilet paper. I actually USED my debit card instead of a credit card.

Trust me -- you'll get use to it. ANd you will start to feel like you are in control again.

When they start calling, dont answer your phone. When you file the calls will stop -- and guess what -- you will still have YOUR money. Keep looking ahead and be positive.

[twuoo]

It could be considered fraud. People generally know they are in trouble some time before they actually sit down and crunch the numbers.

But it really falls to intent at the moment of the charges. When you made the charges were you even considering BK at the time? Even if the answer is Yes, it's gonna be tough for a Creditor to prove.

And the Creditor is also gonna look at what you bought. If it's daily living necessities, that's one thing. If you took a trip to Vegas or bought some luxury item, that would be a whole different ballgame.

Does the trustee ask when you first sought legal counseling and try to use that against you in terms of proving fraud?

I had a consultation back in February or so. As part of the pre-bk planning, that attorney told me to use the cc as necessary (not frivolously) and when I was ready to file for bk, I would consult him again.

To that degree, I won't be filing until Sept/Oct.

I did make 3 purchases last month: the shingles, training that is work related, and paying a non-bk attorney.

So I think it would show at least a good faith effort to pay the mins on those cc that I used last month. But I was thinking of not paying the other ones that haven't been touched in a month or longer.

I still want to "do the right thing", but I'm not sure what that is anymore while thinking in this terrible fog.

I used the legalconsumer website to take the means test. I used the standard numbers supplied from the IRS for living expenses. It says my disposable income is $-289 a month. So I would easily qualify for chapter 7. And I still have no assets.

Wish I could just file tomorrow.....

[HenriettaHen]

"Does the trustee ask when you first sought legal counseling and try to use that against you in terms of proving fraud?"

The trustee is a fact-finder, not an adversary. His/her job is to find assets and distribute them amongst your creditors, not to "use things against you". Think of the trustee as an examiner, examining you and your situation. It was my experience (and seems to be the experience of most people), that the trustee is respectful and professional, and doing her job according to the law. Yes, there are some bad ones - but they are the exception, not the rule.

I say this, because it is important to remember that bankruptcy relief is a PROTECTION afforded us against overwhelming debt and the actions of creditors. In return for that protection, we as debtors are expected to hand over whatever is disposable - and it's the trustee's job to find it.

The trustee has a job to do - you have a job to do.

Now - when contemplating bankruptcy, it is normal to feel like a fraud - after all, each of us has racked up debt that we promised to pay, but can't. We have each "gone back on" promises we made to our creditors. So it's on our minds that we could be "fraudulent".

While working on your bankruptcy, remember that UST office has an OBLIGATION to uncover fraud. If you did not commit fraud, you have nothing to worry about. Fraud has to be proven, and the burden of proof goes over to the creditor, as soon as certain statutory lengths of time have passed.

If you were to contemplate bankruptcy and then go out and accrue credit card debt that you intend to discharge, that would be fraud. Why? Because you KNOW you aren't going to pay it back. I'm afraid it is not wise to use your credit cards for anything after you first see a bankruptcy attorney, and it's not the best advice for him to be telling you to use your cards, even for things like a roof. It will bring up the "appearance" of fraud, which can be just as bad as fraud itself, and may complicate your case.

In the end, you may have to pay the charges that were made inside this "window". So don't make any more! Leave a nice long "no credit asked for or used" window before your filing date, and things will be much simpler.

If you do have to pay these minor charges, it will be no skin off yer nose. Don't worry too much.

[jal1129]

The trustee more than likely won't ask about when you first consulted with an attorney, but, if a creditor is objecting to some charges, that is one of the questions they may ask.

[HenriettaHen]

I'm sorry, I should have mentioned that I filed on my own - so the trustee naturally asked me no questions at all about attorneys.

But there were a few women interviewed before me, with their attorneys, and there was a whole page of very routine-sounding questions about attorneys which they were asked. They were things like;

When did you first consult an attorney?

Have you paid an attorney and when did you pay?

It was all very rote-sounding, as if it were part of the usual script -

I think if you file pro-se and use a paralegal service, they ask the same kinds of questions - my petition was written in long-hand by Yours Truly, so I was not asked about that, either.

This may be why I am being asked for more paperwork - which I can provide. Thanks to BK Forum, I SURVIVED a whole miserable year getting through the mess of paperwork I had accumulated when I got "Desk Phobia"...

My ducks, they is in a row.