OK--here's what I can't find the answer to--

[fatherhill]

And there may be a good reason for that--maybe the answer doesn't exist--

But here goes my question: 6/7 months into the future, our combined household income (4 people) will be $62,820. Missouri's median for qualifying to file for a chapter 7 is $65,909--roughly $3k difference annually.

So, when I go to an atty at that time to start the whole process, and we're below the median, just how is it decided that we have to do a 13 plan--I mean, I know you go thru the income and expense schedule exercises, and the atty/trustee/judge (whoever) can determine you have disposable income--BUT, if you're restrained by IRS standards of expense (regardless of what they may actually be), and the judge decides that you have enough to pay "x" $$ into a 3 year plan (at least if you're below the median--according to Form 22C, Part II, line 17--you only have to do a 3 year plan), then why even have the median income test in the first place?

Does it depend on where you live? How good your attorney is? What county you file in? The trustee?

I know, I know, I'm being all paranoid 6 months in advance--but it's all in being prepared (that's the first and best piece of information I've gotten so far).

Help me wrap my head around this if you can.

[SinkingFast]

[fatherhill]

Thanks, SinkingFast--very easy to understand...

Now, when I go to pencil in my Schedule J, is there any sort of link that shows what normal expenses are allowed in my area--rural Missouri?

And, putting ourselves down to 2 paid-for-worth-less-than-$3K vehicles leaves us with no car payment, and more DI.

First dumb move.

[jal1129]

No, there really is no sites for that. Thats where having a knowledgable attorney comes in. You can go on pacer and look at other cases to see what people in your area are claiming but that can get expensive.

You will still be allowed an expense for your cars even though you have no payment. You need to allow for maintenance & repairs.

I would'nt get too stressed out about it. If your under the median your attorney will, as sinking said "dink" with the numbers, and make it all work!

[SinkingFast]

Thanks, SinkingFast--very easy to understand...

Now, when I go to pencil in my Schedule J, is there any sort of link that shows what normal expenses are allowed in my area--rural Missouri?

And, putting ourselves down to 2 paid-for-worth-less-than-$3K vehicles leaves us with no car payment, and more DI.

First dumb move.

Old cars require repairs. Plus the cost of gasoline is high too.

We had 3 old beaters when we filed. 1 car with full coverage insurance. Other 2 are liability only. Teenaged drivers too.

Our attny entered our real costs for gasoline, maintenance, repairs, and insurance. $380/mo for gasoline, maintenance, and repairs. $175/mo for auto insurance.

Lots of people would suggest you look at the Schedules Allowables for your area and use those as a guide. That may hold true in some places. Where we live, the Schedules Allowables don't reflect what the Court expects to see.

We actually spend about $1K/mo on food. We are allowed $1300/mo for a family of 6, but no attny here would file that much for food on Schedule J. One attny wanted to cut us down to $600/mo for 6 people. Another was gonna allow us $700/mo for food. Our attny pushed the envelope and filed us at $850/mo.

Clothes here, we were "allowed" $350/mo. I went back thru our "shopping sprees" over the last 12 months prior to filing. On average, we'd actually spent $50/mo on clothes. Our attny put in for $100/mo.

Entertainment is an acceptable Expense in many Courts, but not all. We don't go out much but our Court allows for an Entertainment expense. So we picked up $100/mo there.

As Jal said, you can look at cases filed on PACER of people living in your area to see what attnys are claiming in different categories. And Jal is right. PACER charges can add up pretty quick.

Your best bet is to write down, as best you can, what you actually spend on various things. Go back thru your checkbook, your bank statements, old CC statements. Tally up what you've spent on car repairs, clothes, school/work lunches, etc. Any attny you hire is gonna adjust some categories to bring them in line with what the Court is used to seeing for your area.

[CindyLou]

Even if you own your cars you will get an allowance for the upkeep